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#866446 - 11/02/13 09:54 AM 522?
Dave Vedder Offline
Reverend Tarpones

Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 8587
Loc: West Duvall
How you gonna vote? Why?
_________________________
No huevos no pollo.

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#866456 - 11/02/13 11:17 AM Re: 522? [Re: Dave Vedder]
eddie Offline
Carcass

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 2432
Loc: Valencia, Negros Oriental, Phi...
Dave, I have already voted and I voted for it. My reasoning was pretty simple - if the big Agribusiness's are contributing so much money for the defeat of this, it means that I am for it. Agribusiness does not have my best interest as a priority.
_________________________
"You're not a g*dda*n looney Martini, you're a fisherman"

R.P. McMurphy - One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest

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#866459 - 11/02/13 11:21 AM Re: 522? [Re: ]
Dan S. Offline
It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 17149
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
Monsanto against it = Me for it
_________________________
She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell.
I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell.

Bon Scott - Shot Down in Flames

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#866469 - 11/02/13 12:26 PM Re: 522? [Re: Dan S.]
Driftin' Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 04/29/06
Posts: 1740
Loc: Offshore
After a handful of college chemistry classes, one could actually understand a good portion of the ingredients found in grocery store items. Enlightening to say the least. Accordingly, have long been a proponent of kill it/grow it for most of what I call food. It keeps the ingredients list rather short....

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#866471 - 11/02/13 12:54 PM Re: 522? [Re: Dave Vedder]
blackmouth Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/05/04
Posts: 2713
Loc: right place/wrong time
I am always skeptical of more regulations and more layers of government. So I voted against it.

For heavens sake, many of the left leaning news papers say vote against it.

http://www.votenoon522.com/
_________________________
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."
Winston Churchill

"So it goes." Kurt Vonnegut jr.

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#866475 - 11/02/13 01:07 PM Re: 522? [Re: ]
Dan S. Offline
It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 17149
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
Kosher foods are generally considered MORE desirable, not less. And not just by the Jewish.

GMO foods, and others considered less desirable, are those that benefit from a lack of labeling.

I agree that there is no evidence that GMO foods are harmful, but there is also a lack of data, and I'm not really interested in being a guinea pig for Bayer and Monsanto.

The marginal costs added to food is minimal and I think when it comes to food, more information is better than less.

ymmv
_________________________
She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell.
I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell.

Bon Scott - Shot Down in Flames

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#866476 - 11/02/13 01:19 PM Re: 522? [Re: Dan S.]
Paul Smenis Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 08/02/12
Posts: 1052
Loc: In a drift boat...
Voting no.
_________________________
YOUR MOTHER IS A TULE!


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#866478 - 11/02/13 01:21 PM Re: 522? [Re: eddie]
Paul Smenis Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 08/02/12
Posts: 1052
Loc: In a drift boat...
Originally Posted By: eddie
Dave, I have already voted and I voted for it. My reasoning was pretty simple - if the big Agribusiness's are contributing so much money for the defeat of this, it means that I am for it. Agribusiness does not have my best interest as a priority.




You are misinformed and reasoning is ridiculous. Greatly.


Edited by Yak-Fresh (11/02/13 01:21 PM)
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YOUR MOTHER IS A TULE!


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#866479 - 11/02/13 01:36 PM Re: 522? [Re: Paul Smenis]
RowVsWade Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 3405
Loc: Island Time
FUK Monsanto...my wife an I both voted yes. We try to catch, kill and grow as much as possible but that's not entirely feasible so when I buy food I don't want it engineered in a lab.

I won't eat GMO nor will I feed anything GMO to my animals (pets or livestock).

BTW.....fu.ck Monsanto....I HATE those co.cksuckers.
_________________________
"...the pool hall I loved as a kid is now a 7-11..."

If you don't like our prices bring your wife down and we'll dicker.

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#866482 - 11/02/13 01:58 PM Re: 522? [Re: ]
Dan S. Offline
It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 17149
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
Perhaps I worded that poorly. Of course I'd eat that stuff - when's dinner? smile

I wasn't saying kosher foods are superior to your clearly kickass and more delicious menu, but a kosher hot dog sells for more at the store than non-kosher dogs. There is no suffering on the price point for labeling something kosher - a product labeled as containing gmo clearly does suffer on the price point, or it wouldn't be on the ballot in the first place.

BTW- you just let me know if you have any trouble making those ribs disappear.


_________________________
She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell.
I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell.

Bon Scott - Shot Down in Flames

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#866486 - 11/02/13 02:12 PM Re: 522? [Re: ]
Piper
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: FishPrince
Salmon, I caught and didn't have a rabbi pray over it while he ritually slaughtered it
Pulled Pork, mmm mmm cloven hoof bitch!
Bacon Cheeseburger... meat AND cheese fukkk yeah!
and I'm making some Babyback ribs tomorrow, probably going to eat some dungeness crab cakes the next day.


kosher or not, thats a solid menu there!





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#866487 - 11/02/13 02:19 PM Re: 522? [Re: ]
Piper
Unregistered


I'm totally voting for it... the food processor and packagers change labels at will when it comes to "20% more" "low fat" "no fat"... I call bull$hit on the labeling angle. the Food supply is like the government, we need to take the big corporations out of it


if this goes thru it will be interesting to see just which products don't have GMO... I bet the options will be fairly limited...

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#866488 - 11/02/13 02:23 PM Re: 522? [Re: ]
JTD Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 3068
Loc: Browns Point,Wa. USA

Voting for it-

Let consumers decide if they want or don't want GMO products. I seriously doubt eating genetically modified food is an issue, however I am not in favor of tampering with naturally selected genes with potentially huge biological ramifications or further empowering Monsanto when they have already demonstrated abuse politically and socially.

Ironically, my daughter wants to be a bio-engineer and is really angry that I am not supporting what she envisions as the future of food or her career.

Meh.


smile
_________________________
In the legend of King Arthur, the Fisher King was a renowned angler whose errant ways caused him to be struck dumb in the presence of the sacred chalice. I am no great fisherman, and a steelhead is not the covenant of Christ, but with each of these fish I am rendered speechless.

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#866494 - 11/02/13 02:57 PM Re: 522? [Re: JTD]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7429
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Just what is GMO?
Triploid trout? Tiger Musky, Tiger Trout, Splake, Wiper, Sunshine Bass?
Is it GMO to selectively breed plants and animals for faster growth, disease resistence, better egg production, better milk production?
Is it GMO to graft plants together?

Before i would vote for something like this I would like to see clear definitions of what is and is not GMO, and why those distinctions are made.

I do wish that both sides in the campaign would try honesty, but that is too much to ask in this political climate.

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#866497 - 11/02/13 03:45 PM Re: 522? [Re: ]
Direct-Drive Offline
ExtenZe Field Tester

Registered: 11/10/09
Posts: 8060
Loc: Vancouver, WA
I have not studied the subject but militant vegan wife says that pesticides are incorporated into some GMO creations.
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NO STEP ON SNEK

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#866508 - 11/02/13 05:38 PM Re: 522? [Re: ]
_Nate_
Unregistered


just because something is labeled "organic", means absolutely nothing... alot of if not most of "organic" foods, are nothing but a marketing scheme to get people to pay more for vegetables and what not that they think is "better" for them....

the only way to get true "organic" produce and such, is to do it on your own, otherwise you are trusting someone else for their word....

and some of those people are backed by the US Government....

need i say more?

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#866513 - 11/02/13 07:01 PM Re: 522? [Re: ]
cruzn99 Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 10/21/13
Posts: 294
Originally Posted By: FishPrince
OK Hankster, I read the Washington State Academy of Sciences's White Paper and here's my book report on it for you...

Looks to me that it predicts anywhere from a marginal to 10% increase in the cost of food. Marginal is obviously OK, but 10% obviously isn't. The article states "The costs of actual labeling are a tiny fraction of the costs of compliance and certification." These costs come from not just labeling, but increased costs of sorting GMO from non GMO, certification testing as well as managing GM and non-GM crops for cross-pollination.

One point in the white paper that was not brought up yet ITT was the cost to the taxpayer through the state, not just the costs to consumers. Estimates for the cost to the taxpayer for the State hiring people to ensure compliance and enforcing this law range from $0.2 million per year to $22.5 million per year. $0.2 million is probably not worth complaining about but $22.5 million is.

I also found a very compelling argument regarding the voluntarily labeling, whole foods line of reasoning:

Originally Posted By: Washington Science Academy
Currently consumers can choose between conventional unlabeled goods, organic foods, and voluntarily labeled GMO-free goods. By paying more, individuals desiring the “right to know” currently have the option to know when they are buying GMO-free goods, which are labeled voluntarily by firms targeting such individuals. Volunteer labeling concentrates the costs on the target group able and willing to pay more for GMO-free products. Caswell points out that mandatory labeling imposes costs on everyone and not just those that desire GMO-free goods.

Balancing the “right to know” with the “right to choose” is an important economic tradeoff. Invoking GMO labeling through I-522 would provide additional information to consumers. However, I-522 could create barriers to production and marketing of GM products which could reduce the available number of goods to choose among (i.e., reduce the choices) and thereby restrict a consumer’s “right to choose”. In circumstances when the “right to know” conflicts with the “right to choose,” laws and regulations must be carefully thought out, formed, and implemented.


So there are not just 2 types of goods on the marketplace, GMO and non-GMO there are actually 4:

1. conventional unlabeled food
2. organic foods (which are by definition GMO-free)
3. voluntarily labeled GMO-free food.
4. voluntarily labeled GM food.

This law takes the first type off the market, restricting people's freedom of choice. These also happen to be the lowest cost choice in the market. So in a while this law is championed in the name of giving consumers greater choice through better information, it ironically restricts their choices rather than enhances it. Especially if you don't care about GMOs and are going to make your decision on price regardless, removing the lower cost item sans information takes away your preferred choice.

If most people don't care about GMOs enough to shop at Whole Foods or seek out the voluntarily GMO labeling program, then they probably don't care enough to pay higher taxes to subsidize the food costs for other people who do care. Shouldn't people who care about differentiating between GMO and non-GMO food be the ones to bear the full cost of differentiating between the two?


fVck yes, love a good book report. skim skim skim then hold the book up. instant A.
_________________________
at first, i saw Todd with that hat he was wearing, and thought he was Mike Carey.

everhook

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#866517 - 11/02/13 08:24 PM Re: 522? [Re: cruzn99]
Us and Them Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/20/10
Posts: 1279
Loc: Seattle
Gotta love it a vegan that says they are growing food with pesticides inside it so someone votes accordingly . If you have eaten food made from corn, soy or wheat based ingredients typically packaged commercially (Doritos etc) in the past 30 years you have eaten GMO. If you drink whiskey you have consumed GMO . All your beef , chicken and pork is fed GMO . This law as written is useless there are so many holes in it. If you want to avoid GMO foods buy nothing in a package and don't eat most meat.
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Once you go black you never go back

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#866520 - 11/02/13 08:35 PM Re: 522? [Re: Us and Them]
_Nate_
Unregistered


its not that they have pesticides "in" it, its that they have been bred and modified to be resistant to Round Up and other pesticides...

see, when you have huge plantations like Corn, and Wheat, and Soy and such, there is no way in hell you can pay someone to go out and hand pull weeds in the fields... weeds take away from the water table and nutrients in the soil, before the actual crop gets a change to do that itself, to become the best it can be...

so what do they do?

they breed the plants to be resistant to Round Up, and other pesticides, so that they can bring in planes, or whatever means nessecary, and completely drench the crops with Round Up, which then falls down onto the weeds that they are actually trying to kill, and kills them, without killing the crop...

but, the "crop", soaks that sh!t in too, even if its resistant, all resistant means is that it wont kill it, not that its not in the root system, and throughout the fibers and cells in the plant structure...

so in a nutshell, pesticides are "in it", wether you want to believe it or not...

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#866521 - 11/02/13 08:41 PM Re: 522? [Re: ]
Dan S. Offline
It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 17149
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
They don't "breed" the plants to be RoundUp resistant - they genetically engineer the plants - and it isn't the same thing.
_________________________
She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell.
I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell.

Bon Scott - Shot Down in Flames

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