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#924158 - 03/04/15 07:46 AM Sink Tip Length and Weight
RUNnGUN Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1110
Looking for some expert advice. Been out swinging a couple of times this year with some takes and hookups, but nothing beached. I have trouble gauging ahead of time, what length and weight tip to use on any given water. I consider myself still fairly new to Spey swinging, w/ only 15-20 outings under my belt, less than half using sink tips. Pretty much self taught having fly fished for years w/ a single hander. I believe I know how to read water well, having gear fished for 30+ yrs. and realizing Swing water is different. Any more, gear stuff in storage this time of year. Have had decent Fall action East, but only one late winter landed. Have read and found lots of info on the net which has helped, but still would like to be able to predict, before starting a run what to use. All the tip options don't help matters much and I have stuck to and are able to cast, 12' T-14 and T-17 tips for my rod, then played around w/ fly weight if ticking bottom to much. Still, some water I need lighter tips, T-11 or lighter?
Questions:
1) Am I doing things right? Should I stick to the strategy above?
2) Probably a stupid question. Does only more time on the water deliver greater predictability what to use and when?
3) Is it necessary to change tips throughout a run for coverage? Or any tricks to reduce the down time changing tips? Have loop systems already.
4) Is the success I'm having swinging, it?
5)I will dream of the day to have 0 down time, on every run. Maybe it's a dream, maybe not? Thanks.





Edited by RUNnGUN (03/04/15 07:58 AM)
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“Smart people only believe half of what they hear. Smarter people know which half to believe”

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#924202 - 03/04/15 03:20 PM Re: Sink Tip Length and Weight [Re: RUNnGUN]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13141
R & G,

For winter fishing I vary between the tips and flies I described in the other thread. 15' type III and VI sink tips, and weighted and unweighted flies, rarely a floating line and weighted fly. I might on rare occasion use a 15' T-8 tip, but it's rare enough to ignore.

To your questions:
1. What do you use when 12 of T-14 is too much? That would be most of the time for me.
2. Yes.
3. I generally don't. I can cover most water by varying the angle of my cast to adjust for depth, and by adding a weighted fly or removing it if depth and or current velocity slows.
4. Maybe. I don't catch very many fish. I used to catch a lot more winter steelhead using an 8 1/2' single hand fiberglass fly rod with a WF8F/S sink tip of 15' of High Speed Hi-D and unweighted flies, mainly because I was fishing my home water, and there were more steelhead. I'm a believer that fishing over more fish contributes to hooking more fish.

Sg

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#924275 - 03/05/15 01:30 PM Re: Sink Tip Length and Weight [Re: RUNnGUN]
What Offline
Spawner

Registered: 11/05/05
Posts: 870
Not exactly expert advice, but lots of long hours logged...

Like Steve I also run type 3 and type 6 or 7 DC tips, but 12'6" in length, in 6, 7, 8 and 9 weights. I settled on tip lengths of 12'6" because I can use them on all of my rods, 11'6" to 13'6", making only minor adjustments to casting stroke per given rod.
I carry a couple T-11 tips "just in case", but haven't used them in years.
I typically run un-weighted to lightly weighted flies, year round. In unfamiliar runs or runs with constantly changing features, I usually start in with an overdressed fly (rabbit strip), removing parts of the fly while stepping through to get it to do it's thing just right.

1) You should use what feels good/right to you.
2) Yes to more time on the water.
3) I don't change line or tips per run being fished. Instead I'll just adjust fly density and delivery angle, to afford desired speed and depth of swing.
4) Hard to know for certain.
5) Zero down time is a dream. Unless fishing the exact same piece of unchanging water, day after day, year after year.

Sounds like you're finding fish just fine, so have fun with the tinkering.
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#924355 - 03/06/15 05:44 PM Re: Sink Tip Length and Weight [Re: RUNnGUN]
Bantam Offline
Skytucky Redneck

Registered: 03/17/07
Posts: 1425
When I heavily got into spey I bought all my big eyed dumbell flies from the shop and followed the recommended standard of the T-14 & T-10. It made the learning curve horrible with the rod that I first bought, super fast scandi rod. After many days out with frustration. Lines have come a long way since I started... and Skagit lines were a great training wheel. Once dialing in the sustained anchor casting I found that I wanted to push the limits of distance, which came the frustration again.... the frustration of tangled loops. After buying a handful of rods and toying with countless lines I settle with a 32' head that can cast some 5/32 dumbbell eyed bugs that I tie myself, tho these days for my prefered spey tactics is a non 12.5' of T-7 and I swap my flies according to the water I fish. I make a pattern, I duplicate it and revise it. Then I make a dumbbell version, then a smaller version. That way if I feel im not getting down or dragging i can swap just my fly to my conditions. Also most importantly my average length leader is 3'-4'

Another tactic that took me a while to catch on to is when im fishing light is to cast upstream as the line straightens take a few steps down stream allow your presentation to sink, once you feel that you're in the zone hold on tight!
_________________________
Steelhead fishing as I know it is GONE.....

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#924388 - 03/07/15 08:25 AM Re: Sink Tip Length and Weight [Re: Bantam]
SRoffe Offline
Spawner

Registered: 03/02/08
Posts: 811
Originally Posted By: Bantam

Another tactic that took me a while to catch on to is when im fishing light is to cast upstream as the line straightens take a few steps down stream allow your presentation to sink, once you feel that you're in the zone hold on tight!


I will let a few feet of extra line when the line straightens to get the fly to sink. But, I like you're saying.

Instead of swing, step, you step swing.


Edited by SRoffe (03/07/15 08:27 AM)
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Sam





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#924393 - 03/07/15 10:27 AM Re: Sink Tip Length and Weight [Re: RUNnGUN]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13141
Shhhh. Cast, mend, step, swing. Been doing it that way for 40 years. Trade secret. Next thing ya' know, everybody'll be doin' it.

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#924429 - 03/07/15 06:35 PM Re: Sink Tip Length and Weight [Re: Salmo g.]
SRoffe Offline
Spawner

Registered: 03/02/08
Posts: 811
Originally Posted By: Salmo g.
Shhhh. Cast, mend, step, swing. Been doing it that way for 40 years. Trade secret. Next thing ya' know, everybody'll be doin' it.


sorry..... blush

Your secret is safe with me....
_________________________
Sam





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#924435 - 03/07/15 10:26 PM Re: Sink Tip Length and Weight [Re: Salmo g.]
Bantam Offline
Skytucky Redneck

Registered: 03/17/07
Posts: 1425
Originally Posted By: Salmo g.
Shhhh. Cast, mend, step, swing. Been doing it that way for 40 years. Trade secret. Next thing ya' know, everybody'll be doin' it.


some old guy told me to step back and observe the more knowledgeable fishermen out there, one day youll be that old guy
_________________________
Steelhead fishing as I know it is GONE.....

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#924443 - 03/08/15 09:45 AM Re: Sink Tip Length and Weight [Re: RUNnGUN]
RUNnGUN Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1110
Just one step? Thanks for all the tips.


Edited by RUNnGUN (03/08/15 09:46 AM)
_________________________
“Smart people only believe half of what they hear. Smarter people know which half to believe”

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#924447 - 03/08/15 10:32 AM Re: Sink Tip Length and Weight [Re: RUNnGUN]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13141
I owe Bantam a beer cuz he said "one day I will be an old guy, not that I already am!

R&G, it depends. I usually take more than one and less than 15.

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#924472 - 03/08/15 05:25 PM Re: Sink Tip Length and Weight [Re: RUNnGUN]
RUNnGUN Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1110
SG. Sent you a PM.
_________________________
“Smart people only believe half of what they hear. Smarter people know which half to believe”

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#926172 - 03/29/15 02:16 PM Re: Sink Tip Length and Weight [Re: RUNnGUN]
Swing r Die Offline
Smolt

Registered: 09/24/14
Posts: 77
If possible rig two rods, one with a real heavy tip and one with medium or floating tip. You'd be surprised at how many fish you can catch in the winter on a floating line. If you have noticed, the mean/ave flow during the winter has been much lower. I rarely use my t-14 tips anymore unless I'm fishing High water. I like unweighted flies personally.

I like the Mow tips a lot! You can really dial it in quick.

Ideally you want the fly at least 12 inches of bottom. I used to use very heavy tips but I have caught more fish using lighter tips.

You need to get your rod out in front of the fly in the winter, opposite of summer/fall.

Most people cast off their upstream shoulder and cast down and across all the time....

I always cast tips in winter off my downstream shoulder so I can cast across or a little upstream to give the fly time to sink. Make a mend or two then get in front of the fly and drop a lil line if need be.

Don't mend, mend, mend, mend!!!!

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#926173 - 03/29/15 02:32 PM Re: Sink Tip Length and Weight [Re: RUNnGUN]
Swing r Die Offline
Smolt

Registered: 09/24/14
Posts: 77

R & G,


Fish that will take a swung fly will move to the fly. They will see it better if its above their head.

As Howell says, " they're not bonefish, they're not gonna tip their tails".

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