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#886444 - 02/21/14 12:33 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET *** [Re: Rivrguy]
Rivrguy Offline
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Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4398
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope

Final part is the scope of work for the mortalities on the rec side.


Scope of Work
Workshop to Develop Improved Methods for Predicting the Catch of Salmon in Grays Harbor Fisheries
Draft February 11, 2014

Objective: Develop improved methods for preseason predictions of catch in WDFW-managed salmon fisheries in Grays Harbor.

Technical Team: The intent is that the technical team shall work together to complete a joint report that provides recommendations to improve catch projections. The technical team shall be comprised of three members from the WDFW and three at-large members. The commercial fishery industry will be provided the opportunity to fill one of the three at-large positions.

The technical team tasks are to:

1) Quantitatively evaluate the preseason predictions of catch or encounters in the following fisheries:
a. Recreational Fisheries – Chinook
i. Chinook catch or encounters in the Area 2-2 recreational fishery prior to week 40.
ii. Chinook catch or encounters in the Area 2-2 recreational fishery in weeks 40-48.
iii. Chinook catch or encounters in the Chehalis River mainstem recreational fishery.
iv. Chinook catch or encounters in recreational fisheries in each tributary to the Chehalis River.
v. Chinook catch or encounters in the recreational fishery in the Humptulips River.
b. Recreational Fisheries – Coho
i. Coho catch or encounters in the Area 2-2 recreational fishery prior to week 40.
ii. Coho catch or encounters in the Area 2-2 recreational fishery in weeks 40-48.
iii. Coho catch or encounters in the Chehalis River mainstem recreational fishery.
iv. Coho catch or encounters in recreational fisheries in each tributary to the Chehalis River.
v. Coho catch or encounters in the recreational fishery in the Humptulips River.
c. Recreational Fisheries – Chum
i. Chum catch or encounters in the Chehalis River mainstem recreational fishery.
ii. Chum catch or encounters in recreational fisheries in each tributary to the Chehalis River.
iii. Chum catch or encounters in the recreational fishery in the Humptulips River.
d. Commercial Fisheries -- Chinook
i. Chinook catch or encounters in the commercial fishery in areas 2A and 2D in weeks 40-48.
ii. Chinook catch or encounters in the commercial fishery in area 2C in weeks 40-48

e. Commercial Fisheries – Coho
i. Coho catch or encounters in the commercial fishery in areas 2A and 2D in weeks 40-48.
ii. Coho catch or encounters in the commercial fishery in area 2C in weeks 40-48.
f. Commercial Fisheries – Chum
i. Chum catch or encounters in the commercial fishery in areas 2A and 2D in weeks 40-48.
ii. Chum catch or encounters in the commercial fishery in area 2C in weeks 40-48.

2) For a minimum of the 10 fisheries with the worst performance, develop and quantitatively evaluate (using jackknife or bootstrap hindcasting) alternative predictors.

3) Using the results from the hindcasting, recommend methods to predict the catch or encounters for each fishery in 2014.

Process:
February 3-4: Identify members of technical team (Scott, Hamilton).
February 13: Information on predicted and actual catches distributed to technical team (Scott)
February 3-28: Technical team conducts analysis and prepares recommendations. The technical team shall meet together a minimum of two times to complete the assigned tasks.
March 10: Technical team presents analysis and recommendations at public workshop.
March 12: Technical team presentation posted to WDFW webpage.

Workshop Format:
1) The workshop will be conducted in Olympia on March 10, 2014, 2PM, Natural Resources Building, room 172.
2) The length of the workshop will be approximately 1.5 hours, with the following format:
• Introduction (10 minutes)
• Technical Team presentation (50 minutes)
• Technical Team addresses questions from the public (30 minutes)
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#886523 - 02/21/14 07:32 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
Rivrguy Offline
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Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4398
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
Here's the meeting time and place set for the public meeting with the panel of 3 experts that have been retained to issue a recommendation to WDFW on a commercial selective gillnet mortality for Chinook and Chum in Grays Harbor and Willapa Bay. There will be a short presentation from Twin Harbors Fish & Wildlife Advocacy (Tim Hamilton) and then WDFW (Jim Scott). A question and answer period will follow. Then, the public in attendance will be allowed the opportunity to speak and offer their comments.

After the public meeting, the members of the panel will issue a report that includes their recommendations on mortality rates for selective fishing with a gillnet in the two coastal estuaries.

The GA Building is located a block off Capitol Way on the edge of the Capitol Campus. The meeting is in the auditorium. Parking is difficult in the immediate area.

Workshop Date, Time, and Location: The workshop will occur on February 26, 2-5PM, in the Auditorium of the General Administration Building in Olympia. Best idea may be to park on P-3 at the Natural Resources Building (WDFW offices) and walk the two or so blocks to the GA Building at 210 11th Ave SW, Olympia, WA 98501.
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#886565 - 02/22/14 12:56 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
Rivrguy Offline
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Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4398
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope

This bit is from Steve Thiesfeld ( the Region 6 Fish Program Manager ) and the links have in them information and the Power Point presentation from the final Commission meeting. It is a bit confusing to say the least with the lack of a steady flow of information but doing catch up so read on and more to be posted soon.


Attached is the presentation from Saturday’s Commission meeting http://wdfw.wa.gov/commission/meetings/2014/02/feb0714_14_presentation.pdf.

I’ve also attached the version of the policy that the commission reviewed on Saturday that is posted on our webpage http://wdfw.wa.gov/commission/meetings/2014/02/feb0714_14_policy.pdf. I don’t yet have a clean copy of the final.

And finally, the summary sheet http://wdfw.wa.gov/commission/meetings/2014/02/feb0714_14_summary.pdf.
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#886568 - 02/22/14 02:42 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
Rivrguy Offline
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Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4398
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope

Well everyone here is the final part of this attempt to getting information out to everyone. ( for now ) The link is to the FTC website and the East Grays Harbor County guys independent panel of experts that are participating. Links to the submitted analysis / papers are imbedded in the write up. I think this might help those who have not followed events closely to catch up.

http://fishingthechehalis.net/nof-process
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#886861 - 02/25/14 12:52 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
Rivrguy Offline
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Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4398
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
Last call for the workshop on the Grays Harbor Commercial Non Treaty net fishery. This is about the gillnet release mortality more commonly know as the " Chehalis Fling " http://fishingthechehalis.net/chehalis-fling and I am told there will be several presentations. So it is part of the harvest model redo so I urge all to make if you can. The location is known for the poor parking so make your plans accordingly.

Workshop Date, Time, and Location: The workshop will occur on February 26, 2-5PM, in the Auditorium of the General Administration Building in Olympia. Best idea may be to park on P-3 at the Natural Resources Building (WDFW offices) and walk the two or so blocks to the GA Building at 210 11th Ave SW, Olympia, WA 98501.


Edited by Rivrguy (02/26/14 02:24 PM)
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#887294 - 02/28/14 10:03 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
Rivrguy Offline
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Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4398
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope



The Department of Fish & Wildlife has asked the Twin Harbors Fish & Wildlife Advocacy ( THFWA ) to assist them with a public notice so I thought this is a good way to help them out. Those interested can access data, files and information that has been presented to the members of the scientific panel studying mortality rates for selective fishing with a gillnet in Willapa Bay and Grays Harbor using a special "box" set up for the Panel members. The public can access all the files provided the Panel by WDFW at http://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/downloads/Settlement%20Workshop%20Materials/

To access the files and presentation made to the Panel from the Twin Harbors Fish & Wildlife Advocacy, those documents are also available for viewing and downloading on the fishingthechehalis.net website at http://fishingthechehalis.net/nof-process

Much of the process that was dictated by the out of court settlement between THFWA and WDF&W on the 2013 seasons has been posted up before in this thread. Now that said it is a lot of dry reading but it is important for those who have a desire to keep pace and comprehend the difference between NOF in the past and the 2014 process. It is substantial and I or someone will post a update on workshop that took place on 2/26 on gillnet mortalities soon.


Edited by Rivrguy (02/28/14 10:31 PM)
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#887459 - 03/02/14 08:52 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
Rivrguy Offline
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Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4398
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
The first Adviser meeting is next week so I am getting the word out to everyone. As it was last year the public can set in and observe but not participate. In most cases time at the end of the meeting time is set aside for the public to comment. So it is this simple, it is always best to hit every meeting possible to track any process. Those who do are usually more informed and regarded with a bit more credibility than someone than shows late just to bitch. Not sure it should work that way but it is what it is.

Tuesday March 4th WDF&W Region 6 offices Montesano.
Grays Harbor Advisors from 5:30 pm to 7:00 pm.
Willapa Bay Advisors from 7:00 pm to 8:30 pm
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#888103 - 03/07/14 12:42 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4398
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
Well next up in the Grays Harbor Management Plan redo is the technical work being done on the harvest model. Important? Yup but most folks have not and will not get into the model functions but it is a critical element in setting seasons so if you can I urge you all to attend.


The technical panel consisting of numerous WDFW staff, two from the Twin Harbors Fish & Wildlife Advocacy, and a representative of the commercial fishery have been meeting regularly to correct errors and develop means to improve the reliability and accuracy of the GH fall season harvest model used in setting seasons in the Grays Harbor terminal. In addition, WDFW contracted with a outside consulting firm to go through the model and come up with recommended changes as well.

A results of this effort will be presented in a public workshop on Monday, 3/10/2014 in Room 172 of the Natural Resources Building from 2 pm - 5 pm. The public is invited and an opportunity for the public to ask the panel members questions will follow the presentation.


Edited by Rivrguy (03/07/14 12:42 PM)
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#888113 - 03/07/14 02:21 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
Rivrguy Offline
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Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4398
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
Here is the schedule as of now for the NOF GH with the workshops.



2014 &#8208; North of Falcon (NOF) and Grays Harbor and Willapa Bay Advisors Meeting Schedule
Area Date/Location AGENDA

Grays Harbor Advisors (public comment at end)
March 4th
Grays Harbor Advisors from 5:30 pm to 7:00 pm.
Montesano DFW Office Advisory Group function APA Process Review Pre&#8208;season forecasts Management Objectives Meeting Coordination Public Comment

Willapa Bay Advisors (public comment at end)
March 4th
Willapa Bay Advisors from 7:00 pm to 8:30 pm.
Montesano DFW Office Advisory Group function APA Process Review Pre&#8208;season forecasts Management Objectives Meeting Coordination Public Comment

Grays Harbor Advisors (public comment at end)
March 14th 6 pm to 9 pm Montesano DFW Office APA Process Review Forecast
Management Objectives Policy Implementation Fishery suggestions Public Comment

Grays Harbor NOF Public Workshop #1
(APA record testimony to immediately follow)
March 19th 6 pm to 8 pm Montesano City Hall
APA Process Review Forecast
Management Objectives Policy Implementation Fishery suggestions

Grays Harbor Testimony For APA record
March 19th 8 pm to 9 pm Montesano City Hall Individuals will be provided up to 3 minutes to go on the record relative to Grays Harbor Rule Making (Fishery Seasons Development)

Willapa Bay Advisors (public comment at end)
March 21st 6 pm to 9 pm Montesano Timberland Library
125 S Main St, Montesano, WA 98563 APA Process Review Forecast
Management Objectives Policy Implementation Fishery suggestions Public Comment

Willapa Bay NOF Public Workshop #1
(APA record testimony to immediately follow)
March 25th 6 pm to 8 pm Raymond Elks
APA Process Review Forecast
Management Objectives Management Plan Implementation Fishery suggestions

Here is the complete GH NOF schedule with the workshops as it stands now.


Willapa Bay Testimony For APA record
March 25thth 8 pm to 9 pm
Raymond Elks Individuals will be provided up to 3 minutes to go on the record relative to Grays Harbor Rule Making (Fishery Seasons Development)

Grays Harbor NOF Public Workshop #2
(APA record testimony to immediately follow)
April 4th 9 am to Noon NRB Room 172 APA Process Review Forecast
Management Objectives Policy Implementation Fishery suggestions Fishery Structure

Grays Harbor Testimony For APA record
April 4th Noon to 1 pm NRB Room 172 Individuals will be provided up to 3 minutes to go on the record relative to Grays Harbor Rule Making (Fishery Seasons Development)

Willapa Bay NOF Public Workshop #2
(APA record testimony to immediately follow)
April 4th 1 pm to 3:30 pm NRB Room 172 APA Process Review Forecast
Management Objectives Management Plan Implementation Fishery suggestions
Fishery Structure

Willapa Bay Testimony For APA record
April 4th 3:30 pm to 4:30 NRB Room 172 Individuals will be provided up to 3 minutes to go on the record relative to Willapa Bay Rule Making (Fishery Seasons Development)



Those who do not understand the APA / WAC process can read up here: http://www.k12.wa.us/profpractices/adminresources/rulesprocess/faq.aspx


Edited by Rivrguy (03/07/14 04:24 PM)
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#888328 - 03/09/14 04:08 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4398
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope

This hearing got by me as it is not in the schedule so I think a repost is helpful. Now this bit is about the harvest model & the calculations utilized by the Excel spreadsheet. For the past several years Softbite and others have been constantly pointing out errors in the model but frankly folks that thing is a mess and tomorrow is the first time the private consultants review will be made public. A little known fact is WDF&W contracted with a consulting firm to review the model accuracy and the consultants review will become part of the record. It will be a little unusual to watch the process roll out tomorrow. So below is the meeting time and location.

The technical panel consisting of numerous WDFW staff, two from the Twin Harbors Fish & Wildlife Advocacy, and a representative of the commercial fishery have been meeting regularly to correct errors and develop means to improve the reliability and accuracy of the GH fall season harvest model used in setting seasons in the Grays Harbor terminal. In addition, WDFW contracted with a outside consulting firm to go through the model and come up with recommended changes as well.

A results of this effort will be presented in a public workshop on Monday, 3/10/2014 in Room 172 of the Natural Resources Building from 2 pm - 5 pm. The public is invited and an opportunity for the public to ask the panel members questions will follow the presentation.
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#888499 - 03/11/14 03:49 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
Rivrguy Offline
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Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4398
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
A lot is going on and frankly after the workshop on the harvest model it does not instill confidence. As one non agency panel member said “ do not bet the farm on this as it could be plus or minus 200% “ so this thing is really up in the air as to just what is about to happen let alone anyone have any confidence that the numbers in the model will reflect reality. WDF&W hired and outside consultant, MORI-ko, LLC, to review the harvest model on only 4 subjects and MORI-ko came back with came back with 13 pages of items that were wrong or undocumented ( proofed ) assumptions residing in the model. Now many were addressed by the panel but are little more than Band-Aids on the much larger problem of the lack of accuracy I mentioned previously.


From page 12 of the MORI-ko report:

Consideration should also be given to modifying the Model structure to reflect the gauntlet nature of Grays Harbor Fisheries, where fisheries in outer harbor areas affect run sizes in more inside and river fishing areas. For instance, fisheries in estuarine areas (e.g., 2-2. 2B, 2C, 2D) have no effect on projected catches by freshwater sport fisheries. Instead of projecting impacts using harvest rates on fish remaining after removals by estuarine fisheries, freshwater sort catches are computed using s exploitation rates on the total terminal run size. This formulation contains implicit assumptions regarding independence among fisheries, migration run timing of hatchery and wild components, unspecified environmental conditions, and the ability to control effort to constrain allowable catches to projected levels. The current Model structure is not consistent with this characteristic or the gauntlet-type run reconstruction methods employed by WDFW and QIN in their recent report concerning the escapement goal for Grays Harbor fall chinook.


Edited by Rivrguy (03/11/14 03:49 PM)
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#888627 - 03/12/14 02:00 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
Rivrguy Offline
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Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4398
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope

This is heads up time as the NOF process gets closer and folks have asked just where are we? Well that is a good question so at this moment here is my take on things.



So the good first.

1. The Commission policies adopted will get three net free days a week. ( hopefully as the QIN can choose to fish more than 4 days )

2. The legal action challenging the 2013 settlement required WDF&W to get real numbers in the model for the Non Treaty Nets so that should, could , may, be done.

3. The APA process that creates the WAC's for harvest will meet legal requirements. Again this comes from the out of court settlement and WDF&W did not address this issue on their own.



Now the bad

1. We will be in 3/5 on the Chehalis for Chinook and the same for Humptulips Coho. 3/5 is if you miss escapement 3 out of 5 years harvest is limited to 5% release mortality only on that stock / speices.

2. WDF&W will continue to have corrupted commercial release data entered into the model as the District 17 staffer whose numbers were pure fantasy is still around and no change here.

3. It has been said the model is accurate to plus or minus 200% at any point such as week in the harvest model. In other words it is dart board time once again and nobody knows where this is going. Considering the fact that if escapement is not made the fish and citizens will pay the piper and WDF&W staff will still get paid and go merrily down the road one should not expect earth shattering change here either.

4. Despite the appearance of public involvement it is pretty much behind closed doors at this minute. WDF&W is working with the lawsuit settlement folks but after that nah, pretty much looks the usual dog & pony show is headed your way. If not for the information I and other citizens made available to the public just about zip has come from WDF&W and unless we see a dramatic change in direction the average citizen will have little input into this fall's salmon seasons.

5. The Humptulips Natural Origin Recruits Coho ( spawning adults ) have not made escapement since 1987 and something has to give. Just what is going to happen? I have no idea but this is a real issue.

6. Will the QIN seasons be in the model as the state seasons are set? Yes the Commission said but ( ah yeah the but thing again ) they did not say it had to be in the model when NOF goes forward so where the QIN season shows up is a real question. Which means those who feel strongly about conservation are not going to have any ability gauge the total season impacts until WDF&W files the CR 102 ( legally setting the season WAC ). Now the law permits you to comment on the legal record then but that is about it. Which means unless you get on the legal record with the intention of hiring a attorney and heading off to court ( take your check book with you ) then your pretty much being shoved to the curb.

7. The issue of the QIN exercising their treaty rights to 50% of the harvestable adults to Grays Harbor as a whole vs the Commission's and WDF&W's desire to manage the Humptulips and Chehalis Basin's separately has not been resolved. If you think back to the 2013 seasons WDF&W had the QIN proposals around April 4th but refused to place them in the model for the public to see until the QIN made their seasons public much later. Heavens folks I dropped the days in the model and made it public before the agency reluctantly did so. Oh almost forgot with the QIN seasons put in the 2013 model it hit minus 1200 for Chinook escapement on the Chehalis which in plain English means WDF&W knew full well when they established the states seasons ( both commercial & rec ) on paper in the model that the Chehalis Chinook would not make escapement. Now the new Commission policy guidelines say you will make escapement so choose your poison as to the notion that Region 6 District 17 staff ah ................... has joyfully endorsed this concept?



All that said I will still urge any who can to attend this coming Fridays Adviser meeting. Why? Well it has been a citizen effort that brought the potential for change in Grays Harbor fisheries by going to the Commission. The Commission agreed and put in place new guidelines. ( thank you Commissioners ) Assistant Director Fish Program Jim Scott has put a lot of effort in Grays Harbor as has the new Region 6 Fish Program Manager Steve Thiesfeld but that does not mean it has been with any transparency at all. I think this partly due the very tight timeline that the APA process allowed then you have the one constant factor that is always around WDF&W. They really do not care for the public rummaging around ( let alone participate ) the decision making process.

So participate in the process the best you can but do it with eyes wide open knowing that much has changed at the Commission level but that does not necessarily mean that Region 6 or District 17 staff mindset has.


So here are the upcoming dates.

Grays Harbor Advisors (public comment at end)
March 14th 6 pm to 9 pm Montesano DFW Office APA Process Review Forecast
Management Objectives Policy Implementation Fishery suggestions Public Comment

Grays Harbor NOF Public Workshop #1
(APA record testimony to immediately follow)
March 19th 6 pm to 8 pm Montesano City Hall
APA Process Review Forecast
Management Objectives Policy Implementation Fishery suggestions

Grays Harbor Testimony For APA record
March 19th 8 pm to 9 pm Montesano City Hall Individuals will be provided up to 3 minutes to go on the record relative to Grays Harbor Rule Making (Fishery Seasons Development)








Edited by Rivrguy (03/12/14 06:03 PM)
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#888868 - 03/14/14 01:10 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4398
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope

A bump for a reminder of tonight's Adviser meeting. 3 hours and here is the agenda but all should remember in this meeting public participation / comment is at the end.

Grays Harbor Advisors (public comment at end)
March 14th 6 pm to 9 pm Montesano DFW Office APA Process Review Forecast
Management Objectives Policy Implementation Fishery suggestions Public Comment

Agenda

1. Process
2. Other Mortality Factors (e.g. drop off, hooking mortality, pinniped)
3. Release mortality rates, results from Independent Fishery Science Panel
4. Final Management Objectives
5. Fishery Modeling
6. Tribal Discussion
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#889039 - 03/16/14 01:55 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4398
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
So how did the Adviser meeting go? Interesting to what the he-- is my read so the high points.

1. Ron Warren outlined that the QIN had obtained grants to do a biological assessment for Chinook escapement needs and that PFMC had agreed to the results. Simply put the accumulative escapement goals for Grays Harbor Chinook are to be reduced. Going to mean some real changes for the future harvest allocations for both treaty and non treaty.

2. WDF&W staff hoped to develop harvest options to take to the public but not sure that was accomplished. On the Rec side the Adviser's went right at the harvest model to overlay the new policy guidelines to see what was possible this season. Not so much on the commercial side. They had problems with the guidelines, new selective fishery mortalities rates, and in general staying real as to what was possible in the model.

3. Considerable disagreement emerged over the fact that in Grays Harbor & Willapa a drop out rate has not been utilized for either Rec or Commercial nets ( both QIN or NT Nets ). Agency staff preference was to let it ride and fix it next year. That I and others objected to but some agreed with the staff thoughts. In the end the Commercials came to put the drop out rates in also so the issue is undecided at this moment. One of those you know the impact number is incorrect, lot of effort to fix it ( agency thoughts ) so to fix or not is the question left on the table.

4. Now a real failure. This past year the Adviser meetings were opened to the public for citizens to set in and observe the process and comment at the end. That was a good thing but it left some citizens not familiar to the process ... ah confused? Nah lets tell it like it is ticked off. I think, incorrect, know that it appeared to some non Advisers that a group of Advisers were setting down and dividing up the harvest. Now that criticism was probably valid in the past but not so much presently. All Region 6 was attempting to do is take input to get the new harvest guidelines flushed out with options that the public could review and comment on AND provide additional input on good / bad / otherwise.

That was not communicated properly or reinforced as the meeting progressed resulting in confusion and anger. How WDF&W communicates exactly the process underway to the public needs to be addressed. The old way of doing things is history but if your a citizen not familiar with allocation of harvest and how all public input gathered and it is not clearly defined then confusion followed by anger is pretty much the reaction most folks will have. That is unfortunate and Region 6 staff need to address it sooner than later.




Edited by Rivrguy (03/16/14 04:42 PM)
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#889047 - 03/16/14 03:39 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13394
Rivrguy,

Thanks for the update. But to quote my friend eyeFish, GDITMMM!

1. This is so simple I don't know why I didn't think of it before. The solution to harvest always is to lower the escapement goal. I have a suggestion that will save QIN some time and money. Let's adjust the Chehalis chinook escapement to zero - for the QIN. I've gotten used to not fishing for harbor chinook, so I've made my adjustment. WDFW can save a few $$ and stop stocking any hatchery chinook in the Chehalis basin. Then we can watch QIN chinook salmon management in action where they have no federal hatchery $$ as a backstop.

3. So they can't even decide whether to try to fix the problem? Then that is the problem. It's one thing not knowing how best to go about finding the answer. It's quite another to toss around the notion of not even trying to figure out how to find the answer.

I was under the impression that WDFW intended to satisfy the critical terms of your lawsuit. Now it's looking more and more like they're trying to figure out how to dodge it and continue with business as usual.

Sg

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#889049 - 03/16/14 03:41 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
eyeFISH Offline
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Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12606
The key is that we are now officially in the NOF process.

That process is ALL about killing fish…. who gets to kill 'em, where and when they get killed…. typically right down to the last available fish

NOF has nothing to do with conservation. Conservation has already been put in place by policy. At no point in history has the bar for conservation ever been set so high in Grays Harbor. Once the preseason forecasts are plugged into the policy provisions…. escapement to the gravel, tribal agreements/treaties, the 3 out 5 escapement guideline, the 3-day escapement window, and the new commercial ban on directed chinook fisheries…. what (hopefully) emerges on the either end is a finite number of fish left for the fishing industry (rec and comm) to harvest.

To the fullest extent possible, NOF seeks to kill them in a 2014 harvest management plan that sets rec and comm fishing seasons intended to maximally utilize every available paper fish.

I realize that turns a lot of people off. Those folks must accept that if they wanna go fishing, FISH WILL DIE! And if they want the best seasons possible, in terms of time/area/bag, recs MUST assert their claim to the available harvest…. right down to the last fish. There is no shame in that. Rest assured that conservation has already come off the top…. we simply seek to make the best of what's left .

Time to get busy killing some fish.
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#889055 - 03/16/14 04:01 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12606
I believe Dave missed one rather significant highlight in his last post.

New chinook release mortalities have been assigned. Historic rates applied a 45% mortality for gillnets and 14% mortality for tangle nets. After independent scientific review of the available literature, the new rates are as follows:

65% for chinook mesh (9" gear)… a 44% increase
61% for coho/chum mesh (6" gear)… a 36% increase
30% for tooth/tangle mesh (4" gear)… a 114% increase

The increased rates translate directly to increased chinook impacts for each day on the water. Commercials will burn thru their available proportionately faster with each gear type, which means less fishing days for the season.

BTW it's my understanding the new rates will be applied equally to Willapa Bay.
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#889059 - 03/16/14 04:37 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4398
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
Hey THX Doc I was going get it a bit later but you got it!

Quote:
WDFW can save a few $$ and stop stocking any hatchery chinook in the Chehalis basin


SG the Chinook of hatchery origin in the Chehalis come primarily from Satsop Springs operated by the LOCAL community, are as close to 100% broodstock as humanly possible to get and have about ZERO additional impacts added to harvest, be it tribal or Non Tribal, to Natural Origin Recruits. ( NOR ) Prior to the local effort the E. Fork Satsop Chinook had been nearly wiped out for whatever the reason and the effort by folks are pretty much the only reason the Satsop sub basin Chinook have recovered to the levels they have. On the legal SG I think Scott & Thiesfeld are trying ( now the but ) BUT while they might get by me with some BS there is no way they get Tim, Ron, & Art let alone Mr. Joe their attorney.

Say speaking of the science panel it is surprising what rolled out. Besides what Doc said another is the Rec catch they caught that inriver numbers modeled for catch prediction was charged against the total run size. Say the run was 100k then the Bay Rec, QIN, and Non Treaty net take fish 45k so you have 55k remaining that the inriver sport ( and Chehalis Tribal ) fish on. The GH model was developing the inriver impacts off of the 100k rather than 55k remaining which resulted in the modeled impacts to be far greater than they really would be. Plain English the inriver was getting screwed one more time, BIG time. Which is when Doc, I, and others put forth the model inaccuracy of under reporting NT Nets & bay rec and OVER estimating Rec inriver we went on the hunt. Thanks to the panel we have part of the answer now.

Doc is also correct in that the new mortality rates for selective fishing will apply to Willapa. The out of court settlement was for BOTH. Also this was the scientific panel draft as some changes are going appear in the numbers as it is finished and Chum which are a straight non retention gillnet not selective in any manner is going to have a new mortality rate also.


Edited by Rivrguy (03/16/14 07:18 PM)
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#889097 - 03/17/14 11:10 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
treefarmer Offline
Rico's Debt Collection Service

Registered: 01/05/10
Posts: 114
Loc: Satsop Wa
Many thanks to those of you who have taken the time to make a difference.
_________________________
Anything worth doing is worth over-doing

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#889187 - 03/18/14 12:34 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: treefarmer]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4398
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope

The next step in the North of Falcon is the meeting March 19th for public input.

Grays Harbor NOF Public Workshop #1
(APA record testimony to immediately follow)
March 19th 6 pm to 8 pm Montesano City Hall
APA Process Review Forecast
Management Objectives Policy Implementation Fishery suggestions

Grays Harbor Testimony For APA record
March 19th 8 pm to 9 pm Montesano City Hall Individuals will be provided up to 3 minutes to go on the record relative to Grays Harbor Rule Making (Fishery Seasons Development)


So I urge all to attend as this is your opportunity to address the coming salmon seasons. I realize completely that thus far WDF&W has provided little to no information to the public since the Commission adopted the new Grays Harbor Management Plan guidelines. That said folks this is your time coming up to tell them what your thoughts are and get some information on the process of implementing the new GHMP guidelines.
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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