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#993014 - 09/01/18 05:23 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET *** [Re: Carcassman]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4399
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
Nope I am not dead, yet anyway. Things have been pretty steady around this area and I did not see anything worth posting. Well this the QIN and WDF&W seem to be inching along with Wynoochee Mit but nothing earth shaking. Also the Satsop boat launch is pretty much graveled in and will continue to stay that way I imagine. Stand on the old hwy bridge and look upstream. Whatever caused the river to move west is now going to be feeding thousands of cubic yards of gravel down stream. Damn good chance the whole bridge reach will slowly fill in. So we have a primitive launch.


Edited by Rivrguy (09/01/18 07:46 AM)
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#993035 - 09/01/18 01:35 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
larryb Offline
The Rainman

Registered: 03/05/01
Posts: 2314
Loc: elma washington
does the state still have the old launch downriver on the west side? might be able to use it again
_________________________
don't push the river it flows by itself
Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference.
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#993043 - 09/02/18 06:46 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: larryb]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4399
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope

The old bar your talking about is gated off. The launch at the bridge is usable but off the bar but it will water up this winter. Long term no idea as I have zero idea on if that much gravel will flush through.
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#993044 - 09/02/18 07:39 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
FleaFlickr02 Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 3310
River changed quite a bit, for the first time in quite a while, below the new split by Stormy's place. I think the switch from the old channel being dominant to the new changed (sped up?) the dynamics of the flow downstream. The big elbow hole where the channels join back together used to slow the flow to a near stop at that point in the past, but since the change, it pushes down through that area much more quickly, likely driving lots of change downstream during last rainy season.

I'll need to take a walk down the lower before it rains, to see how the water below is looking. For the past several years, it seems to me the fishing down there has gotten to be a timing thing. To some extent, it always has been (tides), but it seems like the fish don't hold down there for any length of time anymore, so unless you hit moving fish, you often won't see much happening, even during high season. Hopefully, there is some new holding water down there somewhere. More likely, it's just straightening out more (going the wrong direction), but it's an excuse to go exploring, and I needed one.

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#993045 - 09/02/18 08:54 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: FleaFlickr02]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4399
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
The new west channel above the bridges is a huge oxbow with acres of gravel piled up between the west side of the bow and the cliff channel. The west channel has water now but not much flow but once it rains the gravel between the two channels will do something. Thing is 57 years ago and for many more the river below the old bridge was very deep on the west side and from 3 to 5 on the east side. It was the swimming hole with the rope swing and bridge jump on the railroad bridge. Things moved around every year but did not change much over time other than the gravel bar under the old highway bridge growing and shrinking year to year.

Now the bar on the east has moved down to the boat launch area and the bridge bar is gone. What never was before is the west side bar that appears to be expanding. That has never happened in my time. By the way a snag is under water right where the two channels come together for you low water boaters.
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#993047 - 09/02/18 01:42 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
larryb Offline
The Rainman

Registered: 03/05/01
Posts: 2314
Loc: elma washington
not talking about the gravel bar. just above the bar the state had a few acres of land with a boat launch. when the river changed it fill in and they opened the launch by the freeway
_________________________
don't push the river it flows by itself
Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference.
FREE PARKER DEATH TO RATS

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#993057 - 09/03/18 07:34 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: larryb]
DrifterWA Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 4978
Loc: East of Aberdeen, West of Mont...
Originally Posted By: larryb
does the state still have the old launch downriver on the west side? might be able to use it again


I know the place your talking about...….I've been in the area since 1968, that West side boat launch was gone before my arrival. The road going into that area, Wormans Bar, is still there BUT is gated off.

I'll miss the current boat launch, if its not usable, sure allowed me to "twitch" 100's of Coho over the years.
_________________________
"Worse day sport fishing, still better than the best day working"

"I thought growing older, would take longer"

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#994489 - 10/09/18 12:20 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: DrifterWA]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4399
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
Well the QIN numbers are up and here is what they are. Modeled Chinook were 1381 & actual is 2216. Coho modeled 3766 actual is 3857. So what happened? IT rained early and on about the 10th of Sept things changed dramatically. The Coho jacks showed with 3 year Chinook then we did not fish for two weeks. The movement was way way more than one would anticipate and shot gunned all over the place. ( shotgun is the same as scattergun )

How much no one knows but the movement was huge and the QIN dropped on the backside of the movement did well the first 2 day set but things tailed down the second and by the time we fished tide water uninterrupted it was done. Simply put now we wait until the fishes timing catches up with ours as the front part of the run is upstream. Inland guys dream come true for a bit but the fish are staging so bites will decline for most lacking fresh fish.

Maybe / maybe not. There are some fish moving head down straight up the river but how far? No idea but once the Chum start in they will bring the rest of the Oct. part of the run with them if any are still waiting. When it rains in the first part of Nov or earlier and the rivers brown out they will move but that is the Nov fish so guys it is all about where you fish.
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#994630 - 10/13/18 08:15 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
jgreen Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 04/18/12
Posts: 311
Loc: Elma, WA
Anyone taking bets on when they are going to shut us down? With no real rain forecasted all week and into next week, I say we are shut down by the 30th.

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#995679 - 11/01/18 12:56 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: jgreen]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4399
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope

Took a quick look at tribal and NT net season and so far it is tracking close to the harvest model with one exception Chum which are a no show ( in numbers ) so far. Have to wait for the last NT set but it was aimed at Chum and from what I have seen they did not find them.


Here is the thing, when looking at NOAA river forecast we have a bump coming and then below average flows the next ten days out and the bump is a small one so the water is going to stay low and clear for this time of year.
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#997833 - 12/01/18 10:53 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4399
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope

Hey guys there has been a really big change in the lower Satsop toward the mouth. Headed for Willis's place so heads up if your running up from or down to the Chehalis. Lot of trees hanging around also so I was told.
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#1003704 - 02/16/19 06:45 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4399
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope

Been a bit since a Grays Harbor issue ( other than the policy ) came up but it is that time. Dates, time and location for the NOF bit.


Grays Harbor Advisory Members,

Welcome to the 2019 North of Falcon (NOF) planning process. Please review the lists below pertaining to the 2019 NOF meetings.

Listed below are meeting dates pertaining to Grays Harbor:


Meeting Date Location/Time
GH & WB Forecasting 2/26/2019 Montesano City Hall, 112 N. Main St., Montesano - 6 pm to 8 pm

GH Advisory 3/5/2019 WDFW Region 6 Office, 48 Devonshire Rd., Montesano 6 pm to 8 pm

GH NOF Public Mtg. 3/26/2019 Montesano City Hall, 112 N. Main St., Montesano - 6 pm to 8 pm

GH Advisory 4/8/2019 WDFW Region 6 Office, 48 Devonshire Rd., Montesano 6 pm to 8 pm



Listed below are meeting dates pertaining to NOF and Pacific Fisheries Management Council (PFMC):


Meeting Dates Location/Time
State Wide Salmon Forecasts 2/27/2019 Lacey Community Center, 6729 Pacific Ave. SE Olympia – 9 am to 3 pm

PFMC 3/7 to 3/12/2019 Hilton Vancouver Washington (see link below for agenda & times)
301 W. 6th Street
Vancouver, WA 98660

NOF # 1 3/19/2019 DSHS – Office Building 2 Auditorium, 1115 Washington ST. SE., Olympia – 9 am to 3 pm


NOF #2 4/3/2019 Lynnwood Embassy Suites – 9:30 am to 5 pm
20610 44th Ave W
Lynnwood, WA 98036

PFMC - Final 4/11 – 4/16/2019 Double Tree by Hilton Sonoma (see link below for agenda & times)
One Double Tree Drive
Rohnert Park, CA


To see more details and agendas for the “North of Falcon – Setting 2019-2020 Salmon Fishing Seasons” and possible schedule changes go to: https://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/northfalcon/
To view meeting dates for Grays Harbor Advisory Group see the following link: https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/advisory/ghsag/ This site will also include handouts, notes and audio of the completed meetings.

Please note I have attached the Advisory Group Handbook. This book explains the role of advisory groups and the responsibility of members. Please take some time to review this handbook.
I look forward to seeing you at the WB & GH forecast meeting on February 26th.

Have an enjoyable day,

Kim Figlar-Barnes
Fish Biologist - Grays Harbor
WDFW Fish Program – Region 6
48 Devonshire Rd
Montesano WA, 98563
360-249-4628 ex 235
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#1005047 - 03/08/19 05:38 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4399
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope

For those looking at GH for 2019 Kim provided the link to get you to the minute and recording of the recent GH Adviser meeting. Short and simple it looks to be C&R on Chinook with a two bag limit for Coho with seasons similar to recent years with last years restricted season not in play. Numbers and things may move around a bit as things are finalized on ocean seasons and the QIN.

To All Interested Parties,

Information from the March 5, 2019 Grays Harbor Salmon Advisory Group meeting is available on WDFW’s webpage. Please follow this link to the site: https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/advisory/ghsag/
To review information from the meeting just click on Meeting Handouts, Meeting Notes or Audio. Please let me know if you have any questions.

Enjoy your day,

Kim Figlar-Barnes
Fish Biologist - Grays Harbor
WDFW Fish Program – Region 6
48 Devonshire Rd
Montesano WA, 98563
360-249-4628 ex 235
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#1005244 - 03/10/19 11:43 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4399
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope

A new wrinkle to watch play out and it is explained minus exactly what the error was / is.

Hello Everyone,
Just wanted to keep the advisors up to date on information pertaining to the 2019 NOF process.

As you may be aware, the March meeting of the Pacific Fishery Management Council is currently ongoing. In the background of the council meetings in the big room, Department staff have been meeting with our tribal co-managers and representatives from federal agencies. Through these discussions and in reviewing data that informs the forecast model for Chinook, an error was found in the run reconstruction data relating to sport catch on the Humptulips. The QIN and WDFW are working collaboratively on resolving this issue.

What does this mean for the forecast? Recall from the forecast meeting on February 26th, we presented Grays Harbor salmon forecasts and made the statement that they were all agreed too with our co-managers. We are still in agreement with the method, unfortunately, due to the error described above, the outcome of the model for Grays Harbor Chinook (both Humptulips and Chehalis Rivers) will change. Once we have completed our work to correct the data and generate a new forecast value we will circulate that and update information on the agency website.

Thanks,
Chad Herring
South Coast Fishery Policy Lead
Montesano Regional Headquarters
48 Devonshire Rd
Montesano WA, 98563
Office#:(360)249-1299
Cell #:(360)470-3410
Chad.herring@dfw.wa.gov
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#1005363 - 03/12/19 09:53 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4399
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope

Clarification from staff on what the issue is holding up Grays Harbor 2019 season process.


As I understand it, the issue was related to WDFW inputs for catch and the allocation of that catch to the Humptulips and Chehalis portions of the watershed. Again, the important piece is that we are addressing the issue to ensure that we have the best information to inform decision making through the season setting process.
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#1005399 - 03/12/19 04:12 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
fish4brains Offline
Dah Rivah Stinkah Pink Mastah

Registered: 08/23/06
Posts: 6193
Loc: zipper
here we go.......................
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#1005400 - 03/12/19 04:43 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: fish4brains]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4399
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
Here are the changes and there are several. Hump W was 6207 and H 2467 Chehalis was 17781 W and 2390 H. Compare with new below and we will have to see but the Hump is going to be challenging to say the least. Remember Hump is not in 3/5 like the Chehalis so it is the W impact that governs everything.

From Chad:

Good afternoon everyone,

We have reached agreement on Grays Harbor fall Chinook forecasts for 2019. I have inserted a table below with the forecast numbers. Forecasts for all other salmon species (spring Chinook, coho, and chum) in Grays Harbor are unchanged from what was presented at the forecast meeting. I have also attached the preseason planning model runs that were presented at the advisory group meeting with the updated fall Chinook forecast numbers. There were two models that were presented, one was 2018 fisheries with 2019 forecasts and the other was 2019 forecasts with a rec season more closely resembling what has been offered in recent years. Staff are currently working on updating the information available on the WDFW website.

Just to provide some more clarity to Kirt’s earlier response. The issue was in how historic catch data was assigned to origin (hatchery vs. wild). The model assigns origin based on current year runsize proportions when actual catch data is not yet available. The problem was the historic catch data was still referencing these proportions instead of the actual catch data by mark type reported from CRC and tribal sampling. Staff will be available to discuss this in more detail at our upcoming Grays Harbor fisheries public discussion meeting on March, 26th at 6pm at Montesano City Hall.


Predicted Return
Escapement Goal
Harvestable Number

Runsize
Chehalis



Hatchery (Mean rates)
2,226
341
1,885
Wild (Mean Ret/Spawner)
13,568
9,753
3,815

15,794


Humptulips



Hatchery (Mean rates)
5,435
650
4,785
Wild (Mean Ret/Spawner)
4,427
3,573
854

9,862


Thanks,
Chad Herring
South Coast Fishery Policy Lead
Montesano Regional Headquarters
48 Devonshire Rd
Montesano WA, 98563
Office#:(360)249-1299
Cell #:(360)470-3410
Chad.herring@dfw.wa.gov


Edited by Rivrguy (03/12/19 04:55 PM)
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#1006014 - 03/26/19 12:29 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4399
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope

Heads up folks and this is at hand. The way the schedule is put out is a bit different so one has to track it differently.

March 26
Grays Harbor Fisheries Discussion
6 p.m. to 8 p.m.; Montesano City Hall, 112 N. Main St., Montesano.
Public discussion for discussion of pre-season forecasts and possible salmon fisheries in Grays Harbor and its associated watersheds.
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#1006610 - 04/07/19 04:29 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4399
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope

Heads up folks and this is it for the NOF bit this year. You might want to pay attention as staff has been a bit duplistic in this process and frankly Olympia and some members of the Commission have been actively engaged in trying to undo the GHMP.


Apr. 8, 2019
6 pm to 8 pm - Region 6 Headquarters Office, 48 Devonshire Rd., Montesano
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#1006612 - 04/07/19 05:03 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4399
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope

As a Adviser I had intended to stay in process through this years NOF while placing my objections to staff. After the reports I received on yesterdays Commission meeting I changed my mind.

Memo: Mr. Chad Herring

I am writing to formally protest as a GH Adviser the failure of Region 6 staff to comply with the Grays Harbor Management Policy. Before I address that issue I feel obligated to say that from the Chehalis Jack fishing rules to Humptulips area C staff has done an outstanding job of research and monitoring these and other issues has tried to treat all fairly with this one glaring exception, which I will address.

The GHMP Item 7 of the guiding principles states: In a manner consistent with conservation objectives, fishing opportunities will be fairly distributed across fishing areas and reflect the diverse interests of WDFW- managed fishers. The failure to address this issue exist in the marine fisheries in the bay area of Grays Harbor has and appears to be continuing this year. Grays Harbor marine areas is basically two distinctly different fisheries which are the South channel known as Johns River and North channel. For whatever reasons Chinook travel and hold in the South channel / Johns River and Coho travel the North channel. Due to the 3/5 provision of the GHMP state fisheries are limited to a 5% Chinook impact utilizing catch and release. Each year the bay fisheries are limited to the period of time it takes for the Johns River Chinook catch and release fisheries to reach the limits imposed by the GHMP. This results in the loss of Coho harvest opportunity in the North channel which has few Chinook impacts as WDFW refuses to recognize the Grays Harbor Bay area is made up of two distinctly different fisheries and users who participate.

The North channel from the 101 bridge passes the Port of Grays Harbor to the area adjacent to Bowerman airport is a mom and pop small boat fisheries utilized primarily by local citizens and is clearly a targeted Coho fishery with few Chinook impacts. The South channel fishery is primarily a large boat fishery Chinook C&R fishery dominated by people of means and fishers from outside the local community. Each year the entire bay fishery is governed by the amount of time it takes the fishers in the South channel to utilize the allowable marine Chinook impacts dictated by the GHMP with few Coho impacts.

One could argue endlessly the duplistic nature of calling a C&R Chinook fishery in the South channel a targeted Coho fishery but for myself that is not the issue. It is the fact that if both the fishers in the North channel & Johns River / South channel were treated fairly and staff complied with item 7 that the North channel would be available for recreational fishers from August through November dependent upon Coho abundance. Simply put a Chinook C&R fishery in the South Channel under the guise of a targeted Coho fishery should not be allowed to utilize nearly all the Chinook impacts and deny a true targeted Coho fishery a full season. This violates Item 7 guiding principles, is absolutely discriminatory toward citizens of less financial means, and the local fishers. It would be a rather simple exercise to define the North channel that fishers would easily distinguished for the average citizen.

As this is not my first rodeo Mr. Herring I recognize your limitations to address this issue and as this is the case I will seek to bring both Mr. Warren and the Director Kelly Susewind into this conversation. The violation of Item 7 of the GHMP and the discriminatory practices resulting from these actions are totally unacceptable. Any attempt by agency staff seeking to not comply by endlessly throwing real or imaginary road blocks as the agency has done for many years on Wynoochee Mitigation is unacceptable.

In closing let me be crystal clear. The violation of Item 7 in the Grays Harbor marine fisheries and the resulting discrimination toward fishers of less means and of local origin must end immediately. It was my intent to address this issue at the Commission GHMP review but that was unfortunately cancelled. Due to time limitations at the last GH Adviser meeting a full vetting of the issue was not made available which resulted in no other option than lodging this formal protest of the violation of Item 7 of the GHMP.

Dave


CC: Director Kelly Susewind
Mr. Ron Warren
Mr. Mike Scharpf
MS Kim Figlar-Barnes
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