Bob, I want to know why you are so against killing wild steelhead, yet you kill wild salmon and show them off on your website? There are many more opportunities to kill wild steelhead in WA state than there are wild salmon. It seems to me that you should be for or against killing all wild fish, not a select group that you happen to favor and promote.

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Oh Boy, here we go again...

Spike,
I can't speak for Bob on this issue but knowing him fairly well I think he would say he is all for the release of Wild Salmon. The problem is that the state and tribes Don't clip all there hatchery salmon. When the day comes that all hatchery salmon are clipped I think you will see more people harvesting hatchery salmon only.

I was hoping to get that response. The tribes do not clip all of their hatchery steelhead either. I am speaking of the Quinault tribe, I am not sure of the other tribes.

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so spike what is your point? careful observation of the fins is useually an easy identifier of whether a fish has spent time in a "cement pond"

thick

take it you don't ever keep any salmon ever eah?

Tight lines

Kevin

[This message has been edited by Kevin (edited 10-27-2000).]

Spike,

I think your question should be directed to most of us, not just Bob.

Like Bob, I release all native steelhead but will bonk an unmarked salmon.

On the flip side, I have no problems with people bonking wild fish if it's *legal* to do so. I just choose not to bonk wild steelhead, regardless if it's ok or not.

I guess I am just a hypocrite.

Parker

Ah, the first "Bash Bob" post of the season

Funny, it comes from someone who has said before that he keeps wild steelhead.

Trying to prove that I'm imperfect? If so, mission accomplished! Never said I was anyhow. Perhaps myself and Parker are hypocrites, but I can live with it.

Why? A combination of biological facts and personal values.

First off, I think there's little doubt that wild salmon are more numerous than wild steelhead, especially in the rivers that I fish. When was the last time you had ~750,000 (typical sockeye return on the Kenai) steelhead come up one of the rivers you fish?? Hmmm, trout fishing on that river is pretty much all C&R too.

Secondly, and quite important in my decision to selectively (more on this later) harvest wild salmon is the fact that salmon are semelparous ... they spawn once, period. You take one salmon out, and you know your impact. Steelhead are a whole different ballgame. They do not share the semelparity trait with salmon. You take one steelie out, maybe that fish was going to spawn one, twice, maybe four times, you don't know!

Of course, fin-clipping problems play a role in my decision too. Is it wild, or is it hatchery? From my understanding, salmon do not have the tendancy to nip at one another as much in the juvenille pools so you do not get the same degree of fin damage as you do in steelhead. Makes the distiction much tougher.

You say that " ...you should be for or against killing all wild fish, not a select group that you happen to favor and promote."

To this, I say "Yes, and no". If there is a particular stock of fish that I have extra concern, or show preference for, so what?? I do, and I don't see the big deal in it!

I have serious concerns regarding the success of our current steelhead escapement models. I must disagree with your statement: "There are many more opportunities to kill wild steelhead in WA state than there are wild salmon." Hogwash! Please document for me! I would like to see total harvest numbers for the state!

And what if we even say that last statement of yours was true? Ever wonder why for so many years why you bought a FOODFISH license for salmon, and a GAMEFISH license for steelhead?? Wonder why in-river commercial fishing for steelhead was banned thirty years before I was even born? Steelhead ARE special !

This isn't to say that I don't make any distinction between hatchery salmon and wild salmon in my fishing. Occasionally when fishing is very good I might get a few fish for myself ... guess what they end up being 99% of the time ... clipped silvers!

Perhaps you missed the picture a couple of days ago of the nice female king my clients let go ... happens more and more in my boat. In fact, some clients want to target silvers and when we know the fishing is decent enough to support it, we'll let all unmarked silvers go, hens or bucks, to find clipped ones. I will admit though, that we limit this practice to our Washington fishing as our fishing techniques in Alaska don't afford very good survival for released fish. Look around the site, you'll find some pictures of wild salmon being let go.

I have also spent a number of hours on the phone with biologists in Olympia and Montesano suggesting one king limits over the years. This hasn't gotten anywhere yet, but hopefully someday in the (VERY NEAR) future, it will. We've made progress with the steelies, maybe we will elsewhere!

Don't care for my reasoning? Too bad, you can call me a hypocrite if you wish, but I'll be damned if you say I don't give a hoot about them as you insinuate

Historically, salmon have always been more abundant than steelhead. Pink, chum and sockeye being the most abundant, followed by silvers and 'nooks and last and a least steelhead. The differnce in population sizes between steelhead and kings and silvers is very large.
How often do you come upon a small pool stacked with a hundred steelhead?? Never. How often among chinook and silvers. It is very possible and happens quite often.
Pink, chum and sockeye are spawning habitat limited while silvers, certain strains of chinook and steelhead are rearing habitat limited.
Out of all these species steelhead spend the most amount of time in freshwater as juveniles. Followed by silvers, certain strains of chinook and the rest of the pacific salmon.
What are these ramblings gettting at?? Salmon populations can naturally take the harvest alot easier than steelhead populations. By removing a chinook you are doing very little damage to the population. By removing a steelhead you are doing much damage because the chinook run has yet to reach their limiting factor while if you remove the steelhead, that steelhead from its certain run had its limiting factor many years prior. That is why pink and sockeyes do not do well in hatcheries but chinook, coho and steelhead do very well.

And if one finds it a necassity to kill a wild steelhead or wild salmon, please be sure that it is a male. Females are limited to the amount of sex cells (eggs) they can produce while males are not. Plus the ratio of males to females under natural conditions is usually 2:1 to 5:1 depending upon the species.

Thanks to anyone who actually read all this useless blabber. I hope in some way it makes some sense. I did my best to explain the science behind harvest of salmon vs. harverst of steelhead.

Ryan

One thing Bob did not mention in his defense, is that ultimatly, his customers make the decision to keep or release a legal fish. They pay for a guide to find fish, not to be their conscience. Many people who go with a guide, have never caught a salmon or steelhead and have no intention of releasing a legal fish if they catch one. I am sure they feel they "paid" for that fish. Bob also makes a good point on salmon only spawning once, unlike steelhead which will return many times if we let them. I know this will be an unpopular statement, but I do not usually keep salmon or steelhead, because I am not a big fan of their taste. I do however love to fish for them. I have kept only 2 salmon, and no steelhead this year. Those two went to my family members who do like salmon. That leaves 16 spots on my tag in Oregon (if I keep 3 for my family) that customers who pay for a guide, can count on not being used. I also have a tag in Washington with only one fish tagged, so they can count on those for the first fish crowd also. Remember your first salmon/steelhead. Did you want to release it?

There are more oppertunities to catch wild Steelhead than wild Salmon I want to fish where you are ...GET REAL
I release all my Wild Steelies no matter what the regs say,as far as Salmon go I try to target hatchery fish ,I guess I'm a hyopocrite too

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Row Quietly and fish a Cataraft }<<(('>----<'))>>{
Release all Wild Fish

I posted this at a different locale....thought it might apply here also....would like responses...I added one I forgot.
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Do you think we could take this the next logical and necessary step??
My opinion of course and lets build on this if you want.

Sportsfishers agree and disagree with wild release.

We agree: If all hatchery raised fish are clipped so as to know birth origin...not clipped we can't agree.

We agree: If alternative commercial harvest is used to ensure wild release at that harvest point also. We disagree if this is not done.

We agree: If any wild fish kept counts 9 times against the commercial catch number. This figure is taken from a 10% C&R mortality on fresh water fish with barbless hooks. We disagree if there is no attempt to monitor this.

We agree: If this ends the blatant prejudice against sportsfishers who help pay for WDFW wages and fund most of the hatcheries. We disagree with the proposal and have prepared a class action lawsuit naming the state and WDFW for extreme prejudicial management of one of the States most valuable resources.

What do you guys think...you all know I am not a lawyer and I obviously wrote this fairly early, but I think it has merit. I think if we all stood up together and said "Here are our demands" then they will have to listen and if they don't we tie the decision up in court...if we can't win the net issue at the ballot box, lets try another tactic.

Always havin fun!

Time to go put some fish in the boat!

Jim

Thanks for your time Bob!

Bob, nice to hear from a guide who cares about the resource. Too many guides (not all) only care about getting the next days booking filled. I wish I had the money to fish with some of the talented guides around this state. I also wish every hatchery fish was marked, Salmon or Steelhead. Keep up the good work Bob, and save a spot for me in the future (when I get the bills paid off and college money for my child saved up and etc., etc.). thanks

I know a few very successfull guides who don't give client the choice, before the trip is ever booked clients are told all Wild Fish will be released. Most client have no problem with this, the only people who say no thanks are from Washington Ironically. What is with this state and it's ignorant fisherman? Ask anglers from other parts of the lower 48 and catch and keep is unheard of!

"Steelhead ARE special"
-----Bob, 2000

So I guess Bob is saying that salmon are not special? Lets kill most of the salmon then worry about their survival rates when the numbers are at the threatened level.

Salmontackler. I do agree that there are guides out there that release all "wild fish". It seems in some cases, that it may be hard to identify a wild salmon from a hatchery fish. That is why I used the word "legal fish", as defined by the regulations. I don't think Washington fishermen are any more likely to keep fish than Oregon fisherman. I think it just comes down to the individual. I live in Oregon, and actually have had people fishing near me, ask if they could have the fish I am releasing . Obviously some people just want the meat. I just like to fish.

hey spike, are you advocating the release of all salmon with unclipped fins? Chums seem to be semi abundant , should we release all we catch. Personaly i do. what is your point spite , other than the obvious dig at bob.

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would the boy you were be proud of the man you are