Originally Posted By: Numbqua
Originally Posted By: darth baiter
Whoa there Numb, pretty harsh words without having a timeframe or location context for slabs generalization. For example, spill and flow ramping regimes have improved in Columbia River hydro system. Some areas have had habitat restoration projects (eg Nisqually estuary). We all reveal some level of our intelligence in our comments. One must be careful.


You’re missing the most obvious problem in this picture. Ocean productivity in general has tanked. The productivity of the Pacific Ocean is by far and without a doubt the most significant factor or variable when looking at the relationship of smolts recruiting into the adult/spawning population. This is what we have unfortunately been witnessing and probably will continue to in the future.

If ocean conditions continue to be unproductive for salmonids, then other attempts will not be successful in trying to rebuild our stocks.

There are all these complete Neanderthals on this forum that stress planting more fish to curb these recent dismal returns. Planting more will not fix the problem, it will just waste more energy and taxpayers money.


There is no guarantee that by “restoring” habitat (if even possible) equals a significant increase in escapement/harvest. It can take decades to restore habitat. The clock is ticking.....we don’t have decades in case you haven’t noticed.

By the way, how are the populations of salmonids doing on the Columbia/Snake? There have been lots of closed fisheries in the past two seasons.. Those increases in “spill” are important and very necessary but...if we we are to witness significant improvements the dams on the Columbia and Snake need to be removed. Anything less is a band aid solution.



So in just over four years it seems you've made 13 posts with the last several espousing how other posters are missing your point or are complete Neanderthals. That may be a record (dubious one, but a record none the less).

Just a test question but if the Neanderthals' idea of planting more fish is illogical given constraints of the ocean conditions how will removing the Snake River dams improve returns? That is, unless I missed your initial point......

A serious constraint to Puget Sound origin salmon smolt is predation and particularly by seals and cormorants. According to the Chasko report seals alone are taking roughly 22% of all (wild and hatchery) Puget Sound origin Chinook smolts and when adjusted to adult equivalents seals take twice what Orcas consume and six times all human fisheries.

Being one of your Neanderthals I support additional production with the same optimism of farmers planting their fields; that conditions will be good and the fields will produce.


Edited by Larry B (02/10/20 02:20 PM)
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