I've been out of the big game fishing arena for awhile, targeting mostly trout up in the Upper Clackamas system. It has always puzzled me why people would fish elbow to elbow in pursuit of salmon on the Wind, play bumperboats out at Bouy 10, or join the mess of folks that hit Eagle Creek when the silvers are in.

Is it only the stereotypical "meat hunters" that find this type of fishing for quick rewards worth it? It has to be more than that, as I'm not sure that there are that many out there to justify what I've seen/heard about. Am I the only one that would rather spend all day trying to catch my limit in solitude than spend two hours or less getting my limit after waiting my turn to cast in a classic clusterFiretrUCK?

With an estimated 3,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,184 silvers coming up the system this fall, I think that this is a very valid question.

Well, I am a Wind River kinda guy. Also fish the mouth of the Lewis when the summer steelies are thick. Both situations are your classic bumper boats. I enjoy it. Nobody gets riled over the occasional foul-up and everyone has fun. Relax, enjoy yourself, and fill the freezer.

Let's hear it for Thumper! You're Damn right its worth it..... Well, about 90% of the time anyway. I combat fish when I have to. I even enjoy myself most of the time. However, there are times and places when I've said "Sdrew it! this is not worth it!" It just depends on how high your Bull$hit tolerance thresh hold is. Mine is pretty high, so I can fish in some pretty hostile conditions before I get too disgusted and have to go home. A good rule of thumb that I go by is "If your not having fun, then go home". I think it's an individual thing, if you're going to be miserable then I'd say no, it's not worth it.

I must say that I aviod combat fishing at all costs. I have always enjoyed the hunt for the fish. If they are stacked up some place that means that they are in the river. I will skip the crowd for a no fish day if I must. I have no problem with the combat fishers but I feel there is always some other place with no crowds that have fish.

For me it's the reason why I'm fishing. Fishing for me is a form of meditation, and it works very well for me. It would be hard for me to do any other sort of meditation in the middle of a crowded subway.

All in all, it depends on my mood I guess. Most of the time I like covering lots of water and avoiding people, although coming across another angler or two on the day can be a nice change of pace.

But certain combat fisheries can be fun, more for the sheer humor then anything else. I didnt think I would like the Drano Springer fishery at all but I had a blast watching everyone that thinks they can fish out on the water in everything they think will float. It makes for a good time and lots of laughs.

no combat fishin here, i go fishin to relax and have fun, i dont go fishin to deal with abunch of idiots.

interesting name heywood lmao

I've fished in my share of combat fishing zones, for the most part I have had a good time. Depends on the crowd, if ya know your headed for one of the zones take a good attitude with ya. The only one that I really didn't care for was earlier during the springer run up at the dam!!! Nothin' like 200 boats backbounchin' in heavy water, not really what I considered fun as I was the one runnin' our boat!!! There will be some this year with the gazillion silver coming back and yes I will be right there in the middle of it!!!
Good luck and tight lines, Jeff

guides are meat hunters, if they were`nt, they would go out of business.

Mike:

*telephone rings*

Hello?
Hi, this is pot. Am I speaking to kettle?
Yes. Yes, you are.
In that case, YOU'RE BLACK!
Huh?
*click*

Ha Ha, don't get it. What the f*** does that mean?

I hate combat fishin! I can hardly stand it when I even see another person on the river. I have many times left a productive stretch of water and went trout fishing because I felt crowded. Even if there was only one other guy than myself. I gues it just depens on what kind of mood Im in. Thats why I stay in the C&R water most of the winter. I fish a couple of productive places where I rarely see another person. But there is a lot of walking involved. But the walking is worth it when there are no boats, roads,or other people.

I generally avoid combat situations, but occasionally will try it. One just needs to put themselves in a different frame of mind before they go. I tell myself to be tolerant and have fun, and if i do that, I usually enjoy myself. Have had some fun days catching fish and socializing with those around me.
While fishing alone is rewarding and relaxing, both situations have their high points. You just need to approach them for what they are.

I didn't mind plunking for spring chinook up at bonneville, I don't know if that qualifies as combat fishing but there were lots of people there and most of them were decent fellows. It was fun to chat with people and lean a whole new way of fishing. I even kept one salmon.
I felt kind of sorry for a couple newbie boaters I saw out there that got yelled at pretty good and probably felt stupid afterwards. Thats not a good place for a newbie to learn how to join a hog line and they created some dangerous situations with their ignorance.

I don't think I could enjoy myself at some place like blue creek though. It would really bother me to fish like that for steelhead In fact I think i'd rather not fish if it came to that. I have a hard enough time with the Mouth of the Deschutes in August
One year I tried fishing the Hospital hole on the Trask and hated it everyone except the bobber guys were snagging. After hearing all the stories about the area I was extremely disapointed such has been the case with every fall chinook fishery I have witnessed. So i guess the short version is no it ain't worth it for me.

Well I guess that depends.

Most of the time I'm pretty antisocial like RICH G and I really don't want to even see another guy, let alone fish next to him. But, I also know that takes hard work to get yourself to a spot like that, and I'm getting too damn lazy to avoid crowds anymore. If you fish amongst crowds, it's like Jeffhead said, you get out of it what you bring to it. Blue creek is plenty crowded, but it's not a snagfest most of the time. Just LOTS of people, and LOTS of fish kegged up in a short distance. If you keep your eyes open, and watch the guys in your immediate vicinity, you can fish without hanging up with anybody most of the time. Put one doughball in the middle, though, and it all becomes a tanglefest.

Besides, when you're told there's a BBQ at your house this coming weekend, and you'd BETTER have a fish for the BBQ (or party, or whatever) then sometimes you gotta put your fish-face on and head to the combat zone.

The WORST thing about combat fishing? Listening to the DOUGHBALLS talk like they're master steelheaders because they landed a couple fish. Some goober with a surf rod and a 3-oz teardrop lead tied directly to his mainline with a knot, and tipped with a #4 spin-n-glo on a #2 hook is standing there telling everybody about his "expert" technique . And of course the crowd thinks he's God since he already has his limit........those are the times you wonder why you even drove down there in the first place.

If you can take it, there's no doubt about your chances to catch fish at these crowded terminal fisheries. Only question is, can you take it??

I fish in a combat zone every fall quite often. As long as you go in with the right frame of mind it can be alot of fun.
You have to go knowing you're gonna cross lines from time to time. The entertainment value of watching the activities makes it worth it. Talk about a circus. Look up river and see 3 guys with kings coming down river ducking under guys who have crossed lines fishing from opposite banks.
I look forward to it every summer. Can't wait to get back down there when it opens to watch the circus.
I'm generally anti-social and enjoy being alone, but hey it's alot of fun with the right frame of mind.
What makes it a pain is when you get some guy down there that gets really pissed off when ever someone crosses his line, you feel like saying "c'mon buddy give it a break, you have to expect that, if you don't go find another river, there's already 250 people here.

Once upon a time I would go to combat zones and enjoy it. Still could I quess but I prefer fishing. It is as most have already stated a matter of attitude. If I am searching for a hookup with Mr. Stealhead I do not want to go to Blue Creek or anything like that. Hatchery or not I prefer solitude and stealhead to combat zones.

The thing I dislike about terminal areas is the blatent snagging. Last combat I witnessed was Hoodsport. I left after watching a dozen fish snagged and hauled out of the water backwards. It was more than I cared to witness.

FOr me I think I will probably stay away from the combat zones. For others it is not a bad choice if approached with the proper attitude.

I've had some of my most productive and enjoyable days fishing combat zones. I've fished Blue Ck. many times in late December in some extremely tight fishing conditions and you just have to be patient. Most of the time everyone is laid-back and conforms with the fishing method predomanately used for that area. Occasionally there's some clueless idiot or the hard-arse with an attitude that can make for trying fishing. I've had weekends (2 days) where I've had up to 40 big brats (12-18 lbs.) played.... that makes it worth it to me. It's not that much different than drifting from a driftboat from the middle casting position with 2-3 buddies aboard. I've also fished the Russian River when there were guys shoulder to shoulder as far as the eye can see. Had on a dozen reds in 1.5 hours that were full of vinegar...it was a blast.

In my opinion fishing is all about the chase. I enjoy producing fish under hard conditions. For this reason it is discouraging to fish the "meat holes" and seeing every idiot with a rod hooking up. I fished a meat hole on the Fraser last week and actually fished next to a dude who had waded up to his waist in JEANS! Meat holes are for meat fisherman...I'd rather fish in solitude for a couple fish than in chaos for a bunch.


CoastAngler.com Salmon and Steelhead fishing in BC

You guys keep using the term "Meat Fisherman" as if it is a bad word. What's wrong with wanting to put meat in the freezer? I love to eat Steelhead and Salmon, so when I want to "harvest" fish, I go wear the fish are. Also, you guys seem to imply that those of us who enjoy harvesting fish are somehow inferior when it comes to our fishing skills. How is it that you come to that assumption? Do you actually think when you step into a "Combat fishery" that you are the only "real" fisherman there? I love hiking small streams, and I love the "Chase", and "Communing" with nature and all of that touchy feely crap, but when I'm ready to pull out the stops and catch a whole bunch of fish, I head to wear the fish are stacked up..... Usually that means that there will be a lot of other people there too. Yes, I love to catch fish, and I like to take them home and eat them. Does that make me a "Meat fisherman" maybe it does. If that's the case, then here's one "meat Fisherman" who only has four punches left on his Steelhead card, (Yes, they are all Summer runs) and will bet his bottom dollar that he could, would, and will outfish all you snobby *******s any day of the week.... Oh, by the way, I fished right next to Bill Herzog a few years back..... At Blue Creek! It was shoulder to shoulder fishing, with guys standing on the bank waiting for a spot to open up so they could fish. Mr. Herzog hooked one fish after another, and by all appearences was having the time of his life. He also, took two fish home with him. Does that make Bill Herzog a "Meat Fisherman"? Perhaps some of you guys out there who have everything about the "right" way of fishing could be so kind as to take Bill aside and teach him how to fish.

When I plan a fishing trip its always set up around being pretty much by ourselves. I agree with the "I would rather fish all day for a couple fish by myself than fish in a crowd for 10" approch. However, seems like when I go along with other people on their trips I wind up fishing in a crowd. The times I have done that It was still pretty fun but different. Flew into Rivers Inlet thinking it was going to be great remote location. Wound up playing bumper boats for 5 days but still had a good time. One things for sure, you sure do see some characters in that type of situation. Funnyer still is the stuff you hear people saying.. you know, when the water is still and you can hear people talking from 300 yards away

Combat fishing, kind of like a free fire zone, What I usally do is lay down some smoke and see if I can find some place below the deadline where the fish have not been harrassed yet. Yes I said deadline because thats usaully where you find the combat zone.
one example is the toutle where the green dumps in. I went up there last september and there was just a ton of guys in there. I thought wow, I have been driving along this river for miles and not seen hardly a soul, so I turned around and found about 2 miles of water with no one on it, walked down there and made about a dozen cast and walked out of there with my 4 silvers, so solitude can be found in areas of large fish concentrations, you just have to put on your walking shoes.
peace Superfly

Depends on the Mentallity of the participants. I have only found one comabat zone thus far that I simply cannot fish, the Feather River Afterbay in CA. The upside down spinning reels, blatant snagging and dragging fish backwards through the water while hooting and hollaring is just too much, the ignorant conversations that you must endure . It has got to be the worst white trash mecca on this coast. If you want comedy this is the ultimate experience, as sad as it may be!

As long as I have a fish on the end of my line, I can just about put up with anything.
That is why I go, but I don't always choose the combat zones.

ZoZo,

Calm youself, man. Your punchcard speaks for itself, but you gotta admit that anybody with a pulse can fill a punchcard at Blue Creek. If THAT'S what you're looking for. Any goober using a spin reel upside down, using a surf rod, or using 30lb test on a trout rod is NOT what I'd consider a "polished angler", yet they still catch fish at places like Blue Creek. If you were to take *most* guys out of the combat zone and put them on a river with a dozen fish in several miles, and they wouldn't have a chance. That doesn't say you couldn't, but I doubt the surf-pole dude could.

If it floats your boat, go with it. You can't argue with the numbers of fish available, and I'm sure everbody that gets in on your fish BBQ's isn't bothered that they came from a combat zone!

Point taken Dan s. For the record, only six of those fish came from Blue Creek. What irkes me is how people are so damn condescending, like they are somehow better than everyone else on the river. They talk about places like Blue Creek, or Hoodsport, or any crowdwed place like no self respecting fisherman would be caught dead fishing it..... And that just isn't so. My comment about Bill Herzog (one of the leading authorities on Steelhead and Salmon fishing) being down at Blue Creek says it all. If you don't like to fish in a crowd, then fine, but don't sit there at your computers, typing away like your some sort of supreme beings who are "above" "meat fishing", saying that anyone who does fish at a place like Blue Creek, or wants fish for the BBQ is a "Goober" or a "Doughball". That's all I'm saying.

I have one nice king and a so-so silver in the freezer because I went to Sekiu and played bumperboats. Plus, my wife would kill me if I spent all that money to drive 350 miles and let all of that fish flesh go.
FISH OOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNN! is what we are all looking forward to, so get it where you can. (If you are looking for somethin' else, I'm happy for yah, as long as you're catchin' fish, too.)

Andy

there are other places to catch fish other than meatholes, everyone has spots that they will never say a word about on a board like this, if you think you have got to go to a so called meathole to catch fish you are wrong.

Right you are, dogsalmon. Like I said, only six of my summer runs came from a "meat hole" this year. I refuse to post on this board where I got the rest of them, and the reason for that is that I don't want this place to turn into another "meat hole". I only fish the "meat holes" when I have to. Let there be no misunderstanding about it, I'd much rather have a stretch of river all to myself, but if I do decide to fish in a "Combat" zone it doesn't necessarily make me a less competent fisherman..... That's all.

Awww c'mon, ZoZo, tell us where you got the rest of em'....

I hear you about the meat-fishin' thing. Not everyone at Blue Creek is a gomer, and not everybody fishing some remote canyon stretch is an accomplished fisher. Just folks looking for something different. I've spent many a morning at Blue Creek, ZoZo, and I've more than likely seen you there, so you know where I'm coming from. Sometimes I want solitude, sometimes I don't mind the crowds. I enjoy EVERY fish I catch, whether it's at Blue Creek or Schaeffer creek. I do enjoy the scenery better at Schaeffer creek VS. the endless mono, stryofoam, and plastic at BC, though.

Hey.........it's all good

Amen Brother Dan.... In the end it's all about the fish!

Based on responses to my earlier post it would appear there are as many jerks fishing off by themselves as there are in the meatholes. What a bunch of self-righteous arseholes. Come to think of it....when I drift a river rarely do I encounter another boater who isn't all puckered-up over who's going to get the next hole or hiding their secret lure or downright rude. On the other hand I've met some pretty decent human beings standing shoulder-to-shoulder at Blue Creek who would share anything they had to give.

The way I see it if the person is at the place where I am currently fishing I will tell them exactly how I'm doing and what I'm using. I've even given people lures that were working particularly well when the occasion arises.

Jerks are everywhere. Nice people are everywhere too.

Amen, Heywood. You'll find all kinds most everywheres.

Strange how this turned into a snipe fight about who's better than whom.

I'm usually intimidated by combat fishing zones because I'm most likely to be the doughball in the middle tossing a wrench into the gears unless I'm there with somebody who has got the routine down.

Bruce

[ 07-10-2001: Message edited by: B. Gray ]

I can't tolerate crowds as much as I used to. Back then, catching a fish was more important than dealing with the masses. But, as the fish came easier and my skills became refined, I found myself less and less tolerant. It's like I'm punishing myself for all my hard work to become a decent fisherman. Occassionally, I still break down and hit meatholes when my mood is right but I find that after an hour of chaos I need to get the hell out of there.....quick!

There is alot to be said for solitude and fewer fish. Anymore, I only ask for the chance at a fish in the course of a day's hike or float and if it's just me and the fish I know I have a good chance at a hook up or two....much more satisfying.

I guess as I get older and experience more of the world my view of the human population becomes more and more dim and it's meat hole fishing that brings out the pond scum of humanity. Don't want or need any part of it.

It's really strange how the older I get the less I want to be around people. I used to love the State Fair, but anymore it drives me up a wall. Guess I'm well on my way to curmudgeonhood.

Meatholes (as they are called) remind me of the trout pond at the Expo Center during the Sportsman Show. It certainly isn't for everyone, but those that do partake have to go in with a specific mindset and a sense of humor to be able to handle it.

People who fish meatholes are no better nor worse than the isolationists. And there are doughballs in both camps.

Doesn't change the fact that I think you folks that enjoy fishing in crowds are nucking futs, however.

Heywood, Been told I'm nucking futs before on other topics so why not carry it over to fishing.

Like anyone else, I prefer having the water to myself. Each year, however, for the past 8 years my boys and I have gone to the Hoodsport zoo to fight some chums. We will not be going back. Last year my youngest son (10) hooked several fish which eventually crossed lines with someone else. Instead of simply helping us get untangled, I watched guys take their cigarette out, cut the line, and then laugh about it! I didn't know what to say to my boy. If that wasn't enough, everytime we got into fish, boats would anchor anchor literally within feet of us. This must be a big-city thing, have never had that problem on this side of the state. We don't have the near the fish you coastal guys have, but fishing without crowds is a given.

RiverMan,

Since your experience seems to be kind of like mine, I wanted to see if you have observed what I have, or whether I'm just smoking crack.

I started going to Hoodsport about 8 years ago, also. There always were a lot of people there for chums, but it seems the boat traffic has steadily increased and most notably over the last 3 or 4 years. When I first started going, I thought a boat would be a great way to get out of the crowds. The boats seemed to stay more or less outside and I remember only the occasional conflict, but over the last 2 or 3 years, it's harder to deal with the boats than with the people on shore.

Also, the last two years the fish numbers seem to have been way down. For a couple of years before that there were huge numbers of fish and the boats could spread way out and always be on fish. Lately it has been more typical that there may be only one good concentration of fish, and first one boat, and then another and another and another will move right in on them, regardless of the school's proximity to the bank and the crowds on shore. It's one thing to be shoulder to shoulder with the bank fishermen when everybody's casting (more or less) in the same general direction. It's another thing having to deal with the boats opposite you all casting at you, plus anchor lines and all that. Then there's all the new talk about whether the boats are even supposed to be crossing the supposedly new lines that have been established out there the past two years or so. That's what chased me away from that place. In all the years I have gone, really only two or three what I would characterize as obnoxious bank fishermen stick out in my mind. The great majority of the time it was a circus atmosphere and everybody had a pretty good attitude about the whole thing. If you went there with the right attitude, it was just fun. When circumstance allowed, it was a great place to catch a big chum on a fly and catch fish after fish that way.

Maybe when the fish counts get up again, the bank/boat conflict will subside. I hope so.

Oh Ya the Hoodsport Zoo can be fun at times and other times ...well not so fun

The best way to have a good time....bring Timberman for some reason we don't get to much grief...go figure.....Os

Gotta agree with O's bringin Timber to any combat area makes life alot easier :p Seem we don't get corked either with him in the boat

Tight lines

Kevin

Two thumbs up for Timberman

Wish I had him with me on the Wind River.

Peace

I would be considered a youngin' by many people who knew me. Yet I hate combat fishing. I don't like being around people who don't know what they are doing. (I'm not saying I feel this way about all people in all situations). And ya know, I'm sure some people feel the same way about me because of my age.
If I know I am next to someone who has knowledge or knows the system then I want to learn from that person. It's probably the rude and uncourteous people who bother me the most. Why would anyone fight over a quote, "stupid" fish??? Are they really worth getting injured, or how about death?
Just letting of a little steam here. I have had bad experiences with mean people! Mean people suck nice people... Just thought a little comedy would lighten things up. I think that people should try to assist other people in learning the ways of the river, and then there SHOULDN'T be ANY problems.
Matt

Meat Holes........ Where fish stack up in front of hatcheries river forks and such and so do lots of Anglers.
Anger..........When the Guy next to you at Hoodsport takes his fifteenth fish that he brought in tail first back up to his car.
When the guy six guys up from you at blue creek snags your line for the 22th time.
Patience............Must have it or stay away from meat holes.
RAMPRAT [img]null[/img]


[ 07-13-2001: Message edited by: ramprat ]

Dodge,

As far as the boats are concerned, yes it has gotten much, much worse. The fish numbers have also gone way down from what they used to be. I believe that the hatchery rack numbers are still up but the fishing quality has diminished for sure. I am convinced that commercial fisheries not the least of which the Tribal fishery are really hitting these fish. The fishing would just start to pick up and then the beach seines would come out........

Chums are a spectacular fish to catch on a fly, but in my opinion not worth the grief anymore at Hoodsport. The sad part is that my boys absolutely love the trip over there each year and always compare all other fishing trips to "Hoodsport". When I tell them "we're not going anymore" the SSSS hits the fan, lol. Happy Angling to you!!

RM

GO GET EM LITTLEZOZO!!!!!! when hatchery fish are endangered I'll quit fishing.

Desertdrifter: Exactly my point. Hatchery fish are there to be harvested, so why not harvest them? Hell, it's much better than taking home natives. Would you guys rather have all these "Doughballs" as you call them, out at Blue Creek putting the hurts on a bunch of hatchery fish, or would you rather they were up on the Oly Pen. Targeting Natives and taking home every thing they catch?