#573484 - 01/18/10 12:53 AM
Re: Bad News Sauk & Skagit
[Re: The Catcherman]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 3316
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Having read a few of Keta's other posts, I tend to believe this was rather heavy sarcasm.
Lowering escapements to keep a fishery open may have made sense when there were 20-30,000 fish returning to these systems, but I don't think anyone would try to argue that it does when 5,000 is the starting point.
When I first learned that escapement goals were as low as they have been for some time now, I recall wondering how any of us ever catches a fish. Think about how much needs to fall in line to catch one fish these days, let alone the huge numbers that were the rule 40-50 years ago. It makes me really impressed with those 10 percenters out there who consistently catch fish at today's escapement levels. Those guys are good.
Anyway, I'm starting to pull a 180 on this thread. I started out in full doom and gloom mode, deeply saddened at the prospect of the Skagit and Sauk closing. I don't fish those rivers, but I have always wanted to; sort of a rite of passage for a steelhead angler in Washington.
More and more, I am thinking, despite the likely fallout from this event, that this is a good thing. I am looking forward to my trip to the OP in March, but I wouldn't be too upset if they decided to close those rivers in February as well. I have said before that I would rather see fishing stopped than see the fish continue to fade away, and I will stand by that remark. Hopefully, these actions will give us some strong, demonstrative arguments to use in future negotiations with the tribes to convince them to act in kind. If we truly want to turn this around, we ALL need to change our ways, and quickly.
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#573578 - 01/18/10 03:13 PM
Re: Bad News Sauk & Skagit
[Re: CraigO]
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Three Time Spawner
Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 1558
Loc: Wherever I can swing for wild ...
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Another point I think worth pondering, well actually two:
1. This should not be a surprise since this is not the first time, remember 2001
2. C&R fisheries have been allowed to occur on the S/S at 80% of estimated escapement levels over a number of years since, I believe the last closure in 2001. Smalma my correct me if I am wrong. In my opinion C&R fisheries should not be allowed to occur usless the estimation is at !00% or greater than the escapement level on any system.
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#573708 - 01/19/10 12:53 AM
Re: Bad News Sauk & Skagit
[Re: Double Haul]
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Repeat Spawner
Registered: 03/05/00
Posts: 1092
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Yes,sarcasm it was. I've been watching this slow motion train wreck for years and when the escapement goals where lowered I was very skeptical that was the direction to go. It seems to me that if the carrying capacity is declining the thing to do would be raise the carrying capacity not reduce the escapement goal, but that's not the easy way and it would be bad for the economy so here we are.
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#573710 - 01/19/10 01:12 AM
Re: Bad News Sauk & Skagit
[Re: Keta]
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Returning Adult
Registered: 03/16/00
Posts: 329
Loc: snohomish, wa
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nothing will change untill the nets are out of the river for good.
you cant have a recovery with NETS in the river!! end of story. I hope all the folks over on the OP look at this get a clue. cause its coming to your area next.
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#573736 - 01/19/10 09:37 AM
Re: Bad News Sauk & Skagit
[Re: Leopardbow]
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Dick Nipples
Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 28170
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
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I am slightly disturbed at the number of hatchery fish still returning and the high potential of those fish strayhing and spawning with wild fish. I think this could have been postponed until at least the end of January. The Sauk and Skagit Rivers don't close until Feb. 16th, so hopefully as many of the hatchery fish as possible can be cleared out... Fish on... Todd
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#573838 - 01/19/10 02:24 PM
Re: Bad News Sauk & Skagit
[Re: Todd]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/25/01
Posts: 2844
Loc: Marysville
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Rich - Clealry since 2001 steelhead management policies have changed. AS you know the State has a new steelhead policy that should address those issues and of course Puget Sound steelhead are now ESA listed.
Keta - I sure that we all would like to see our river systems supporting higher carrying capacity. Unfortuantely that is very difficult to accomplish.
Such things as Carrying Capacity are determined by the biological prodcutivity of each of our river systems. Carry Capacity like MSY levels vary every year depending n the survival conditions (both freshwater and marine) that the returning adults experienced during their lives. Because of the extremely poor survival conditons that say Skagit steelhead are now experiencing the steelhead carrying capacity of the Skagit basin is much lower than it was in say 1985. Goals could be set at some hope for conditon (higher than current capacity) but all that would do is insure that runs sizes/escapements will consistently be below those goals. The only way those hoped for conditions can be met is for dramatic improvements in either the quality/quantity of the freshwater habitat (producing more smolts per spawner), or significant increases in smolt to adult survival, or some combination of the two.
At some point we have to come to grips with what we have done to our river systems and either live with those biological realities or work our rears off to change things.
Tight lines Curt
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#573965 - 01/19/10 07:28 PM
Re: Bad News Sauk & Skagit
[Re: Todd]
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Juvenile at Sea
Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 173
Loc: Ferndale
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I am slightly disturbed at the number of hatchery fish still returning and the high potential of those fish strayhing and spawning with wild fish. I think this could have been postponed until at least the end of January. The Sauk and Skagit Rivers don't close until Feb. 16th, so hopefully as many of the hatchery fish as possible can be cleared out... Fish on... Todd They are closed right now.
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#573967 - 01/19/10 07:33 PM
Re: Bad News Sauk & Skagit
[Re: Leopardbow]
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Hippie
Registered: 01/31/02
Posts: 4533
Loc: B'ham
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I am slightly disturbed at the number of hatchery fish still returning and the high potential of those fish strayhing and spawning with wild fish. I think this could have been postponed until at least the end of January. The Sauk and Skagit Rivers don't close until Feb. 16th, so hopefully as many of the hatchery fish as possible can be cleared out... Fish on... Todd They are closed right now. Really? Where did that get posted? I haven't fished it for a while but I know that people were fishing it last weekend.
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#574026 - 01/19/10 10:30 PM
Re: Bad News Sauk & Skagit
[Re: ]
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Dick Nipples
Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 28170
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
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They don't close 'til the 16th of February.
Fish on...
Todd
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