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#983422 - 01/10/18 08:50 AM Re: DISASTROUS conference call.... [Re: eyeFISH]
RICH G Offline
PP Resident Nostradamus

Registered: 11/05/00
Posts: 2486
Loc: Land of the Lost
We live in a state where corruption rules the roost, where government takes care of themselves first, where the culture of corruption is protected at all costs.

What does it all come down to? power, money and ego. Its that simple, if people want real justice, truth and honor the people in power within this state need to be removed, only then will things get better.

The tribes hire smart people to represent them and understand how the game works, that's why they are so successful. They have lots of laundered non traceable cash.


Edited by RICH G (01/10/18 08:52 AM)
_________________________
www.olympicproject.com

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#983430 - 01/10/18 10:54 AM Re: DISASTROUS conference call.... [Re: Bay wolf]
Jake Dogfish Online   content
Returning Adult

Registered: 06/24/00
Posts: 495
Loc: Des Moines
Originally Posted By: Bay wolf
Contact the Commission

Appears the link in Great Bender's post above is broken. Here is a working link to gat a message to the Commission.

Vital that we let the Commission know we fully support them in rescinding or repairing the flawed RMP!


The plan has already been submitted to the NOAA.
What can the commission do about it?

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#983432 - 01/10/18 11:19 AM Re: DISASTROUS conference call.... [Re: Jake Dogfish]
Larry B Offline
Carcass

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2355
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Jake Dogfish
Originally Posted By: Bay wolf
Contact the Commission

Appears the link in Great Bender's post above is broken. Here is a working link to gat a message to the Commission.

Vital that we let the Commission know we fully support them in rescinding or repairing the flawed RMP!


The plan has already been submitted to the NOAA.
What can the commission do about it?


One might take a position that the initiative creating the Commission resulted in the Commission having the responsibility for establishing policy for the Department. In my mind this Plan is clearly policy. Insofar as the Plan was not run past the Commission and has not obtained its approval it is not legal. Can NOAA take action on an illegal Plan?

That said, I just received a notice from the Commission that they will be holding a telephonic conference call tomorrow to be briefed on the Plan by Staff. The agenda for the Commission's meeting at Ridgefield has as Item No. 10 on Friday, 19 Jan, a Plan briefing and possible decision.

Maybe I missed the part about public review and input......

But it does appear that the Department is now trying to put the pieces together but this is one of those events that cannot be perceived as a simple procedural oversight.

I sincerely hope that the Commission does not simply rubber stamp the Plan with its obvious flaws.........





Edited by Larry B (01/10/18 11:31 AM)
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#983433 - 01/10/18 11:32 AM Re: DISASTROUS conference call.... [Re: eyeFISH]
Waterboy Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 07/25/06
Posts: 432
WDFW NEWS RELEASE
Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife
600 Capitol Way North, Olympia, WA 98501-1091
http://wdfw.wa.gov/

January 10, 2018

Contact: Commission Office, 360-902-2267

Commission to receive briefing on proposed plan
for Puget Sound chinook salmon

OLYMPIA Ė State fish managers will update the Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission during a conference call Jan. 12 on a proposed management plan for harvesting Puget Sound chinook salmon.

The commission, a citizen panel appointed by the governor to set policy for the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW), will convene the call at 2 p.m., Friday, Jan. 12.

The public can listen to the work session, but there will be no opportunity for public comment. To participate in the call, contact the Commission Office at 360-902-2267 or commission@dfw.wa.gov by 4 p.m., Thursday, Jan. 11.

Any materials that will be discussed during the call will be available on the commission's website at https://wdfw.wa.gov/commission/meetings/2018/01/agenda_jan1218.html.

WDFW staff will brief commissioners on the Puget Sound Chinook Harvest Management Plan, which was developed in conjunction with treaty tribal co-managers. The state and tribes submitted the plan on Dec. 1, 2017, to NOAA Fisheries, which is currently reviewing the proposed plan.

The plan defines management goals for state and tribal fisheries that have an impact on wild Puget Sound chinook salmon, which are listed for protection under the federal Endangered Species Act (ESA). Under that law, no fisheries affecting Puget Sound chinook can occur without a conservation plan approved by NOAA.

The federal agency has already provided some feedback on the plan, noting that several key salmon stocks would not meet NOAA's new, more restrictive conservation objectives. NOAA is seeking more information from the state and tribes on the conservation objectives within the proposed plan.

The plan is available on WDFW's website at https://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/fisheries/chinook/.

Additional discussion about the harvest management plan will take place during the commission's regularly scheduled meeting, Jan. 18-20, at WDFW's regional office in Ridgefield. A meeting agenda can be found on the commission's website at https://wdfw.wa.gov/commission/meetings.html.

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#983434 - 01/10/18 11:34 AM Re: DISASTROUS conference call.... [Re: eyeFISH]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 4782
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
WDFW has messed up enough regulation process procedures, and lost in court on it, that they did not "mess up" or have and "oversight".

Recall that Israel often built settlements in areas where there was dispute over just whose land it was. Facts on the Ground are hard to change. If NOAA were to approve this it will be hard for WDFW to back out as it leaves them with nothing.

Just saw a news release that says there are other stocks in PS that the plan does meet NOAA standards on so what we see now is not what they want; it's too liberal.

By the way, Larry, they had public review and input. They showed it to somebody............

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#983437 - 01/10/18 11:39 AM Re: DISASTROUS conference call.... [Re: Waterboy]
Jake Dogfish Online   content
Returning Adult

Registered: 06/24/00
Posts: 495
Loc: Des Moines
Originally Posted By: Waterboy


The federal agency has already provided some feedback on the plan, noting that several key salmon stocks would not meet NOAA's new, more restrictive conservation objectives. NOAA is seeking more information from the state and tribes on the conservation objectives within the proposed plan.


Careful what you wish for!

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#983438 - 01/10/18 12:01 PM Re: DISASTROUS conference call.... [Re: Carcassman]
Larry B Offline
Carcass

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2355
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
By the way, Larry, they had public review and input. They showed it to somebody............


Yes, but then the Chinese President returned to China.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#983439 - 01/10/18 12:07 PM Re: DISASTROUS conference call.... [Re: eyeFISH]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 4782
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Doesn't matter. They crossed that "t" and dotted the "i". They complied with the letter of the law. Kinda. Sorta. And, as justification, "It's how we've always done things".

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#983441 - 01/10/18 12:14 PM Re: DISASTROUS conference call.... [Re: Carcassman]
Larry B Offline
Carcass

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2355
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
Doesn't matter. They crossed that "t" and dotted the "i". They complied with the letter of the law. Kinda. Sorta. And, as justification, "It's how we've always done things".


Oh, good, now I understand and I feel soooo much better.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#983443 - 01/10/18 12:20 PM Re: DISASTROUS conference call.... [Re: eyeFISH]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 4782
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Thought you would......

There is often a vast gulf between what is legal and what is ethical.

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#983513 - 01/12/18 03:15 PM Re: DISASTROUS conference call.... [Re: eyeFISH]
darth baiter Offline
Parr

Registered: 04/04/10
Posts: 45
Loc: United States
Here is the link to the briefing paper for the Commission on the Puget Sound Harvest Management Plan for todays conference call.


https://wdfw.wa.gov/commission/meetings/2018/01/jan1218_Combined_PSCHMP.pdf


Edited by darth baiter (01/12/18 03:16 PM)

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#983522 - 01/12/18 06:58 PM Re: DISASTROUS conference call.... [Re: eyeFISH]
Bay wolf Offline
Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 658
Loc: Graham, WA
Here is the audio link of todays Commission conference call:

Commission Conference Call Ten Year Plan Brief
_________________________
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

1Sgt U.S. Army (Ret)

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#983523 - 01/12/18 07:00 PM Re: DISASTROUS conference call.... [Re: darth baiter]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12298
Originally Posted By: darth baiter
Here is the link to the briefing paper for the Commission on the Puget Sound Harvest Management Plan for todays conference call.


https://wdfw.wa.gov/commission/meetings/2018/01/jan1218_Combined_PSCHMP.pdf


WOW... that's a mouthful. And that's the condensed version.
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#983524 - 01/12/18 07:11 PM Re: DISASTROUS conference call.... [Re: eyeFISH]
OceanSun Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 1099
Loc: Echo Lake
If I read that correctly it looks like they did a sample run down of what 2017 seasons would have looked like with 2017 projections using the new management objectives. In doing so it would have shut down 7, 8.1, 8.2, 9, etc to make up a very small impact that wouldn't make much of a difference in the freshwater netting impacts. Even if these new objectives and ESA impact limits are upheld isn't there a better solution than shutting down all the guys that both provide funding for and are passionate about saving our fish?
_________________________
. . . and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and have dominion over the fish of the sea . . .

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#983526 - 01/12/18 07:53 PM Re: DISASTROUS conference call.... [Re: Bay wolf]
darth baiter Offline
Parr

Registered: 04/04/10
Posts: 45
Loc: United States
The audio appears to be screwed up. I just get a repeat of the first couple of minutes and staff introduction, then it loops around to repeat.

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#983542 - 01/13/18 08:14 AM Re: DISASTROUS conference call.... [Re: eyeFISH]
Lucky Louie Offline
Carcass

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 2063
Listening in on the conference call Friday, it was mentioned that the PSC is meeting this week end with discussions about the dilemma of Puget Sound salmon. Interested in what solutions they can help with.

NOAA has returned the 10 year plan for revisions as stated above to be returned back by the end of Feb. if I remember correctly--- time for more revisions after public input Jan. 19 commission meeting??
_________________________
The world will not be destroyed by those that are evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything.- Albert Einstein

No you canít have my rights---Iím still using them





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#983544 - 01/13/18 09:49 AM Re: DISASTROUS conference call.... [Re: eyeFISH]
Bay wolf Offline
Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 658
Loc: Graham, WA

As far as improving transparency. I encourage the Commission to take a very hard look at their "delegations" in the future. We have submitted a petition to the Commission to convert the NOF policy into a WAC (Washington Administrative Code) That would then make it a law and not just advisory. They then could write into the WAC more stringent oversight of the Department and include language for greater transparency. The Board will discuss this on a conference call on 2 February, no public input. I HIGHLY ENCOURAGE EVERYONE to write an email to the Commission board members and ask them to vote YES on converting the Policy to a WAC! You can read the reply letter from the Board on our facebook page.

It's interesting to note that the confidentiality clause for the mediation process, 1. Was waiverable, but they chose to keep it. and 2. It did not prevent WDFW from sharing details with the Commissioners. Senior Staff at WDFW chose to keep the Commission out of it, because the Commission is liable to open public meetings laws, and WDFW did not want the public to have any information about what they were agreeing to! If you want to find out more about this issue I invite you to look at our Facebook page Open North of Falcon
Or if you have any questions, you can reach us at: OpenNOF@gmail.com


Edited by Bay wolf (01/13/18 01:59 PM)
_________________________
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

1Sgt U.S. Army (Ret)

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