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#983531 - 01/12/18 10:34 PM I have a DREAM....
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12766
Well mebbe not me personally... but at least Blake does.

http://app.leg.wa.gov/billsummary?BillNumber=2417&Year=2017#documentSection

Wonder who's gonna produce these 10 million kings? Are the eggs just gonna rain down from Heaven by the good graces of the Fairy Godmother? Mebbe he's counting on the Easter Bunny?
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#983532 - 01/12/18 10:35 PM Re: I have a DREAM.... [Re: eyeFISH]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12766
HB 2417 - DIGEST

Creates the legislative task force on the recovery of southern resident orcas to gather evidence and make recommendations regarding the recovery of the orcas.

Makes an appropriation from the general fund to the department of fish and wildlife to increase hatchery production of Chinook salmon and other salmon by ten million fish per year.
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#983547 - 01/13/18 11:13 AM Re: I have a DREAM.... [Re: eyeFISH]
Krijack Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1531
Loc: Tacoma
I have a dream too. That most of these would be used to establish a viable run of Hatchery spring Chinook, from the Chehalis stock, into the Skookumchuck. Not sure if would work, but the rest could go to doing the same thing with the white river stock in the Green (king county). I would love the chance to fish for some springers in a smaller river. The Green of the Toutle never got that many but was fun while it lasted. Oregon has a few small stream runs left and they are a blast to fish.
It would be interesting to see if there is a study that indicates the time of year and areas where the orcas are running into the most trouble finding fish. I personally question shoving most of these fish into the Columbia system is the best way to help the Orca's.


Edited by Krijack (01/13/18 11:14 AM)
Edit Reason: spelling

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#983549 - 01/13/18 11:44 AM Re: I have a DREAM.... [Re: Krijack]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Krijack
I

It would be interesting to see if there is a study that indicates the time of year and areas where the orcas are running into the most trouble finding fish. I personally question shoving most of these fish into the Columbia system is the best way to help the Orca's.


Good questions! My understanding is that the Frazer River Chinook have been a primary source and secondarily Puget Sound Chinook. Southern WA coast/CR????

But at least they are proposing GF money although a State study would seem redundant to Federal actions/responsibilities. How about the Feds look at how northern fisheries are impacting P.S. returns relative to both Orcas and WA's ESA listed salmonids and effect some positive recovery actions.
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Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#983551 - 01/13/18 12:06 PM Re: I have a DREAM.... [Re: eyeFISH]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12766
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#983556 - 01/13/18 02:32 PM Re: I have a DREAM.... [Re: eyeFISH]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7411
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Release the smolts and the seals still eat them, BC and AK will still catch them. If he is truly serious about this helping whales and not just a backdoor way to increase fisheries than include a section that no WA-based fishery can harvest ANY of these fish until, as adults, they have passed where the whales can access them.

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#983557 - 01/13/18 02:34 PM Re: I have a DREAM.... [Re: eyeFISH]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...


I believe Chinook output from WA hatcheries is off roughly 60% since about 1985 so this proposed legislation is a start if the goal is to have more returning fish all factors considered.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#983560 - 01/13/18 03:18 PM Re: I have a DREAM.... [Re: eyeFISH]
slabhunter Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 01/17/04
Posts: 3742
Loc: Sheltona Beach
IMHO the quickest boost to the Orcas would be to limit northern interception. Rather not wait for three to five years for the hatchery production to ramp up. 2cents
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When we are forgotten, we cease to exist .
Share your outdoor skills.

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#983561 - 01/13/18 03:28 PM Re: I have a DREAM.... [Re: eyeFISH]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12766
Here's a 5 yr snapshot of what was going on a decade ago...



And here's a broader 12 yr span.... same smell.
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#983563 - 01/13/18 03:38 PM Re: I have a DREAM.... [Re: Krijack]
eddie Offline
Carcass

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 2432
Loc: Valencia, Negros Oriental, Phi...
Originally Posted By: Krijack
I have a dream too. That most of these would be used to establish a viable run of Hatchery spring Chinook, from the Chehalis stock, into the Skookumchuck. Not sure if would work, but the rest could go to doing the same thing with the white river stock in the Green (king county). I would love the chance to fish for some springers in a smaller river. The Green of the Toutle never got that many but was fun while it lasted. Oregon has a few small stream runs left and they are a blast to fish.
It would be interesting to see if there is a study that indicates the time of year and areas where the orcas are running into the most trouble finding fish. I personally question shoving most of these fish into the Columbia system is the best way to help the Orca's.


I really like this idea!
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"You're not a g*dda*n looney Martini, you're a fisherman"

R.P. McMurphy - One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest

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#983564 - 01/13/18 04:02 PM Re: I have a DREAM.... [Re: eyeFISH]
slabhunter Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 01/17/04
Posts: 3742
Loc: Sheltona Beach
70-80% Salish Sea Chinook are traded to Canada for Alaskan take of Canadian stocks?

For sure, the US/Canada Treaty needs to be reformed!
_________________________
When we are forgotten, we cease to exist .
Share your outdoor skills.

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#983565 - 01/13/18 04:21 PM Re: I have a DREAM.... [Re: eyeFISH]
DrifterWA Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 5074
Loc: East of Aberdeen, West of Mont...
WDFW mind set....NO hatchery springers will be raised to go into the Chehalis system.

Many years ago, about 35, some members of Grays Harbor Chapter of North West Steelheaders, had the idea of using a pond up by the Skookumchuck Dam to raise "spring salmon". I remember Tom Pentt, 2 members of the Chehalis Tribe and myself drove to the "holding ponds" below the dam. I don't remember exactly what happen but the ponds ended being used to raise Coho for the Puget Sound area, end of any chance for Springers in the Chehalis drainage.

Chehalis Tribe had a program to raise Springers but it never got off the ground......

I'd love to have a chance for a Chehalis springer, again, but wild run has trouble making escapement.

Oh, Qin and Chehalis tribes does/can net on them.....Chehalis Tribe does not report any catch figures to Region 6.......grrrrrrrr
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"Worse day sport fishing, still better than the best day working"

"I thought growing older, would take longer"

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#983572 - 01/13/18 06:23 PM Re: I have a DREAM.... [Re: slabhunter]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7411
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
If, in fact, it is the goal of NOAA to stop the Killer Whale decline then closing the northern interceptions is the best and fastest was yo do it. It will provide fish in Year-1. The hatchery proposal, even if works, will take 3 years from first egg-take to show a benefit, if the interceptions in ALL fisheries of the new production are held to 0. Which is faster than the benefit from any habitat work.

Which leads me to conclude that the Killer Whales can just go die.

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#983573 - 01/13/18 06:58 PM Re: I have a DREAM.... [Re: Carcassman]
NickD90 Offline
Shooting Instructor for hire

Registered: 10/26/10
Posts: 7260
Loc: Snohomish, WA
Originally Posted By: Carcassman


Which leads me to conclude that the Killer Whales can just go die.


They're trying!

On paper, I'd be happy with 10MM kings...if it weren't for Northern interception. Why should we waste even more of our tax dollars further propping up BC and AK fisheries?
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#983618 - 01/14/18 05:57 PM Re: I have a DREAM.... [Re: eyeFISH]
RUNnGUN Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1382
MY DREAM. Restart up the South PS Blackmouth delayed release program out of Capital Lake! 10 million a year out of there would have enough fish to feed the the Orcas, Recs, Tribes and any commercial entity! Clean it up to make it work. Make the dead zone a live zone again! F the wild fish competition argument and ESA BS. If you do it from the end of the sound some will stay some will leave North, but then at least all PS participants will get a crack at them. I will admit I am selfish. The way it exists now I have to go north to Everett and the San Juans for any viable winter success. F that! Why is it so good there? Because they put the numbers up there! I want what it used to be back in the 80's here South of the Narrows. All it ever takes is planting the numbers. Lets make South PS the Salmon Capital of the World envisioned by Bill Wilkerson, Norm Dicks, and all the dudes that had a vision for that back when. Flame on!
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"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.” – Ferris Bueller.
Don't let the old man in!

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#983627 - 01/14/18 07:55 PM Re: I have a DREAM.... [Re: eyeFISH]
fishbadger Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 03/06/01
Posts: 1194
Loc: Gig Harbor, WA
While we're dreaming, hell yeah I'd get on board with that RUNnGun!

But upon awakening, it looks a lot like the deck is stacked against those whales that don't have enough sense to switch away from salmon over to harbor seals. . .and us humans who like salmon too are pretty screwed.

fb
_________________________
"Laugh if you want to, it really is kinda funny, cuz the world is a car and you're the crash test dummy"
All Hail, The Devil Makes Three

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#983642 - 01/15/18 07:05 AM Re: I have a DREAM.... [Re: eyeFISH]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7411
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
There are already populations of Killer Whales that eat pinnipeds just fine. They are our transient stocks. They are at least behaviorally different, have different language, and are quite possible biologically different species. As has been shown in other KW populations, especially in the Antarctic.

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#983647 - 01/15/18 07:52 AM Re: I have a DREAM.... [Re: eyeFISH]
RUNnGUN Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1382
I wonder why the big hoopla la between Chinook and Killer Whales? Sure, it is what it is, a food source. If all the Chinook were gone you think they would stop searching for food? They're not so stupid that they would starve because no kings to eat. They move to the next best thing. Seals, Coho, Pinks etc. A few years ago KW were in Dyes Inlet feasting on a big return of Chum. Also some rouge KW went into Hood Canal and wreaked havoc on an excessive population of Seals there. They are opportunists like most other predators in nature. I think they deserve a little more credit than they get.


Edited by RUNnGUN (01/15/18 07:58 AM)
_________________________
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.” – Ferris Bueller.
Don't let the old man in!

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#983648 - 01/15/18 08:01 AM Re: I have a DREAM.... [Re: eyeFISH]
NickD90 Offline
Shooting Instructor for hire

Registered: 10/26/10
Posts: 7260
Loc: Snohomish, WA
I thought that there's two kinds of Orcas. Salmon eaters and seal eaters. Sound Orcas are salmon eaters. The ones that you see eating seals are transient pods from Cali that sometimes move into our area. I wish they would visit more often. At least that's my understanding - could be wrong....
_________________________
“If the military were fighting for our freedom, they would be storming Capitol Hill”. – FleaFlickr02

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#983652 - 01/15/18 08:24 AM Re: I have a DREAM.... [Re: eyeFISH]
fishbadger Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 03/06/01
Posts: 1194
Loc: Gig Harbor, WA
No that's correct (the current level of understanding on the two populations of orcas we see in the Salish sea). I think once the resident population gets stressed enough, it'll broaden its appetite to preserve some herd genetics. It's just tough to watch the short term consequences (lots of dead starved whales) of decreased carrying capacity due to not enough fish.

What's the path forward to some discussion on limiting the northern intercept fisheries impacts? Just starting the discussion would be helpful.

fb
_________________________
"Laugh if you want to, it really is kinda funny, cuz the world is a car and you're the crash test dummy"
All Hail, The Devil Makes Three

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