#997771 - 11/30/18 06:57 AM
Re: Nisqually Chum and Closed water
[Re: Bay wolf]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7410
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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This idea of separate, different, and not equal forcasts is, unfortunately, not new.
I really do not understand why the the State can't challenge. I can understand won't, but not can't.
If they can't, they have just admitted (as if they really needed to) that there is no Co-Management.
And, a rec fishery in the Nisqually on chums decimating (which, actually, is reducing it 10%) the run is also mind-boggling. Again, I can understand concerns about steelhead by catch as that has been an issue for the 30+ years I know of but never chum.
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#997777 - 11/30/18 10:08 AM
Re: Nisqually Chum and Closed water
[Re: Bay wolf]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
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If the bycatch of steelhead and its incidental mortality rate resulting from a recreational chum fishery is a concern one reasonably should be asking about the loss of steelhead to non-selective gill nets.
Unfortunately this smacks of the same co-management failure as experienced with the MA 13 Dungeness crab fishery and with the same tribe.
No, WDFW needs to simply say that if the tribe has a season the State will have a fishery. End of story.
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Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!
It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)
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#997779 - 11/30/18 10:36 AM
Re: Nisqually Chum and Closed water
[Re: Bay wolf]
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King of the Beach
Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 5201
Loc: Carkeek Park
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I'm sure some steelhead are taken in the tribal gillnets during the chum fishery, but I doubt there are many. Based on my experience fishing the Nisqually up until they closed steelhead fishing in 93, it was a much better late winter stream. We caught a few early steelhead, but March and April provided the best fishing in my opinion.
I'm with Larry though. The state should open it up if the tribes insist on fishing. The Nisqually will evenually end up being a private playground for the tribe just like the Skok if the state lets it happen, which appears to be the case.
SF
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#997781 - 11/30/18 11:21 AM
Re: Nisqually Chum and Closed water
[Re: Bay wolf]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
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That was a great March/April steelhead fishery until it wasn't. Just to reiterate, if the tribe is concerned about any bycatch mortality on steelhead from a recreational fishery on chum then they should discontinue any use of gillnets when targeting those same chum. As for recreational harvest of chum concurrent with a tribal fishery.....well, if the fish don't show that recreational harvest will be pretty low and the State could always issue an emergency closure. Edit: There is a Commission meeting 14/15 December in Oly with time set aside both days for public input. Here is a link to the draft agenda for that meeting: https://wdfw.wa.gov/commission/meetings/2018/12/dec0718_D_draft_agenda_dec1418.pdf.
Edited by Larry B (11/30/18 11:27 AM)
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!
It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)
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#997793 - 11/30/18 03:01 PM
Re: Nisqually Chum and Closed water
[Re: Bay wolf]
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Repeat Spawner
Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
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The issue is not that the tribe is concerned about recreational bi-catch, the problem is they are netting REGARDLESS. Who cares about taking a “conservative” approach and wait to see what the run looks like. Net because we have the right to and conservation be damned. So, they net, the numbers show the state bio’s were right and they agree to stop netting AFTER THIER DONE! Or, they do like last year, we finally force it open, only to have an emergency closure early because the nets prevented enough fish to make escapement. It sucks no matter.
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1Sgt U.S. Army (Ret)
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#997811 - 11/30/18 05:13 PM
Re: Nisqually Chum and Closed water
[Re: Bay wolf]
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Three Time Spawner
Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1531
Loc: Tacoma
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We, the recs, are not and cannot be the problem. In any given week, the numbers suggest we will take around 100 fish or less, probably less than 50. Totals for 2015 were just over under 400 and for 2016 around 250 for the total reported take. Any guess what the nets will be taking? I personally watched 1 net on another river fill 4 bins of chum with the expectation of taking 2 more by the end of the day. A good location funneling the fish in, a good coral set up, and quick picking and the numbers can be very, very high.
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#997818 - 11/30/18 08:35 PM
Re: Nisqually Chum and Closed water
[Re: Bay wolf]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7410
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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You are trying to apply logic to the situation.
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#997836 - 12/01/18 11:55 AM
Re: Nisqually Chum and Closed water
[Re: Bay wolf]
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Repeat Spawner
Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
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The Nisqually is ripe for the taking. Just as the Skokomish River was "annexed" and claimed as sovereign property, so will the Nisqually go.
We have seen a slow but steady progression to remove recreational sportsmen, and incrementally turn the management and jurisdiction of the river over to the tribe in toto. There IS a strategy and it is playing out in plan sight. However, it is happening in small increments, so with each loss, we don't raise objection. We've lost the ability to fish on netting days, we've lost days to closures, we've lost access, and now we've lost an entire run of fish. We are loosing a once "public waterway" and, believe me, it's not EVER going to be given back.
The Nisqually is phase two of the annexation of public waters by Treaty Tribes. Once it is accomplished, it WILL be used, along with the Skokomish, as precedence for future take overs.
Don't worry you say...WDFW won't let that happen. REALLY? Ask the guys waiting for Point no Point Ramp, ask the Guys who loved fishing the Skokomish. The list goes on.
WE ARE LOSING THE MOUNTAIN, A PEBBLE AT A TIME! WAKE UP!
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#998523 - 12/11/18 10:06 PM
Re: Nisqually Chum and Closed water
[Re: Bay wolf]
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Fry
Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 23
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My understanding is that the Tribe had no problem with opening it up with the sport anglers, but WDFW didn't want to and is doing this one-sided closure with no real conservation concerns. Way to stoke the flames, WDFW.
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#998526 - 12/12/18 06:22 AM
Re: Nisqually Chum and Closed water
[Re: Ohop Joe]
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Juvenile at Sea
Registered: 01/30/13
Posts: 233
Loc: Skagit
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My understanding is that the Tribe had no problem with opening it up with the sport anglers, but WDFW didn't want to and is doing this one-sided closure with no real conservation concerns. Way to stoke the flames, WDFW. And how was it that you came to that understanding?
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Catch & Release Is Not A Crime
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#998528 - 12/12/18 06:54 AM
Re: Nisqually Chum and Closed water
[Re: Bay wolf]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7410
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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WDFW had one forecast that said "no fishing". The Tribe's forecast said there were fish. Of course the Tribe would support and opening for recs because it would have supported their numbers. Then, IF WDFW's forecast was right and the run is overfished, both sides share the blame as they both fished.
IF WDFW's number was right, and the escapement goal is not reached, it pit's the Tribe in a poorer light; IF the Tribe is right it puts WDFW's methods in a poor light.
Management, at least good management, requires one to go with their best numbers and accept the result. Both sides did that; one will be right and the other wrong.
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#998531 - 12/12/18 07:12 AM
Re: Nisqually Chum and Closed water
[Re: Bay wolf]
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Spawner
Registered: 04/04/00
Posts: 763
Loc: LAKEWOOD,WA,USA
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This happened a couple years ago, we didn't get to fish silvers at all. I am sorry to say I went to the tribes processing plant in Tumwater and got some eggs ( I was out). I was told it was a near record run, you could almost walk across the river on their backs.
We didn't get our share that time either.
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#998543 - 12/12/18 11:41 AM
Re: Nisqually Chum and Closed water
[Re: Bay wolf]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7410
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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Remember that "our share" includes Nisqually fish in all the marine fisheries. It is not 50:50 in each fishery or location.
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#998546 - 12/12/18 11:54 AM
Re: Nisqually Chum and Closed water
[Re: Bay wolf]
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Spawner
Registered: 04/04/00
Posts: 763
Loc: LAKEWOOD,WA,USA
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I am aware, we didn't get to fish area 13 that year also.
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Everyone's superman behind the keyboard
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#998601 - 12/12/18 07:26 PM
Re: Nisqually Chum and Closed water
[Re: Bay wolf]
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Three Time Spawner
Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1531
Loc: Tacoma
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From emails from the department, it appears the run is coming in low, with the tribe having taken 4000 chum so far.
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#999117 - 12/19/18 07:38 PM
Re: Nisqually Chum and Closed water
[Re: Bay wolf]
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Three Time Spawner
Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1531
Loc: Tacoma
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Well, its now closed for the tribe too. I wonder who they will blame when the run continues to fall. I love how they blame a lack of water.
NISQUALLY INDIAN COMMUNITY EMERGENCY REGULATION 6-2018 DECEMBER 19, 2018. IN ACCORDANCE WITH SECTION 14.23.02 NISQUALLY TRIBAL CODE, TITLE 14-Chapter 2, AS AMENDED BY THE BUSINESS COMMITTEE EFFECTIVE 7/31/91, THE NISQUALLY FISH COMMISSION HAS ADOPTED THE FOLLOWING FISHERY CLOSED EFFECTIVE DECEMBER 19, 2018. REGULATION SUPERCEDED/MODIFIED: 5 SPECIES: CHUM FISHERY TYPE: COMMERCIAL GEAR: GILL NET MESH RESTRICTION: NONE OPEN DAYS/HOURS: CLOSED UNTIL AGREED TO YELM ISU SHOWS ESCAPEMENT HAS BEEN MET JUSTIFICATION: NEED WATER IN SPAWNING GROUNDS NISQUALLY FISH COMMISSION
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#999129 - 12/20/18 07:12 AM
Re: Nisqually Chum and Closed water
[Re: Bay wolf]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7410
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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With all this rain they need water in the spawning grounds????? Gillnets do a lot, but they stop water?
I also note that the justification mentions an ISU. Begs the question of why there was the separate forecasts and management plans if there was and agreed-to ISU.
Last note is that only the Commercial fishery is closed.Personal use-subsistence could very well still be open.
Edited by Carcassman (12/20/18 07:13 AM)
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