I consider the leadership to be the problem, not the guys in the field or the folks that have no decision-making capabilities. Throw out the folks like Ron Warren, but don't put all govt. employees in the same cesspool as the folks who run the show. Maybe you have had the ability in jobs that you have held to tell the people in charge of your paycheck to go [Bleeeeep!] themselves, but most have families and bills. If you know anything about me (and you really don't) you would know that I don't and never have worked for ANY govt. agency. I just think that people like "Stam" are blatently against all govt. agencies and employees as you can see from his many posts and whose opinions are formed from a thinking process that says all govt. is evil. If you feel that the agency is totally fuc*ked from top to bottom why bother with the process at all? I certainly wouldn't even bother if I was as jaded as you seem to be. Don't go to meetings if that's the way you feel. Why talk to people you consider to be totally corrupt or totally inept? Otherwise you are just seem to be a hypocrite. And you know, all people seem to do is discuss politics and bitch about lack of leadership and lack of fish on this forum. Lots of fish being caught and nobody reports on them anymore. Seems like a fishing forum would have some actual fish stories. bob R