This thread was about changes in WDF&W, or lack of. WDFW is no different than any entity, it has good folks, OK folks, and some of the others. ( you pick the term ) It utilizes a system of operation that requires staff to comply with it and those that do not face consequences. As I have said before WDFW has a culture of how things work and are validated. I have found that most staff are descent folk just doing a job the best they can but it is the system they operate in that is broken. Each time a new Director is chosen ( I have known many starting with Bill Wilkerson ) great expectations are out and about only to be crushed as nothing changes even when the top level staff do. It is the system and the processes it employs to reach the mid and upper levels that prunes out the non believers. Effective change can not and will not come from inside the agency but rather must come from the outside be it proactive or burn the house down. After 38 years of interaction I lean toward burn the house down. Rant over and off the stump.