Also,I did not talk to a Puyallup tribal person regarding the 8000-9000 numbers. A friend of mine who is a sport fishery advisor had talked to a Puyallup tribal person whi gave him the numbers for one particular year. The numbers returning to Minter never seem to go over 2000 fish. A guy I know who used to work at MInter told me a long time ago that the Minter springers average around 8-13 lbs with a rare 20 lb fish.