Hey if you don't like or can't take hostile environments don't come on this board. Most people on here don't change their views after what you call "logical' debate. I probably use too many "emotive" words for some but my intention is not to logically agree with the rank and file of one point of view but to toss out my "wild allegations" in hopes of getting a lively discussion going so some nuggets of information will drop out along the way. If Ramon's cause was so just he would be able to defend it I would think...after all he started this debate.