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#956892 - 05/05/16 04:14 PM upset fisherman!!! ****
RICH G
Unregistered


You can thank "MSY" and dirty politicians for the end of this states salmon fishery. There has never been any honesty, saw that when I worked in La Push 15 years ago.

Something else to ponder is the fact that most of you support the same liberal political candidates that the tribes have made much richer with casino money. You can pat yourself on the back for helping this along... Look who the tribes support and see if you support the same criminals.

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#956900 - 05/05/16 06:27 PM Re: upset fisherman!!! [Re: ]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13521
Nice try Rich, but your remarks range from borderline to entirely irrelevant. Much as I dislike MSY, it has nothing to do with the effects on this season's salmon fishing. The closures of many NT recreational fisheries is entirely due to not having any official "paper" covering incidental take of ESA-listed salmon and steelhead. Since the early 2000s, the state has had ESA coverage by riding the coat tails of the treaty tribes' ESA coverage, which they got by riding the coat tails of a fishery management plan submitted by the BIA, even though the BIA is not a fishery management agency, making the entire affair look like a bit of a sham. But that's a separate point and possible issue.

Any politician who receives money from tribes will pander to them because politicians, for the most part, can be bought. However, tribes have run into a stumbling block because state law prohibits politicians from accepting money from governments, and tribal governments, as they are always telling everyone, are sovereign governments. Tribes can buy campaign ads for a candidate they support like a PAC - and they invariably support Democrat candidates - but they cannot donate directly to a candidate. And candidates don't get rich on tribal casino or any other money. They can be bought so cheaply that no middle class citizen would call that amount enough to be rich.

Sg

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#956902 - 05/05/16 06:35 PM Re: upset fisherman!!! [Re: Salmo g.]
wsu Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 422
Originally Posted By: Salmo g.
Nice try Rich, but your remarks range from borderline to entirely irrelevant. Much as I dislike MSY, it has nothing to do with the effects on this season's salmon fishing. The closures of many NT recreational fisheries is entirely due to not having any official "paper" covering incidental take of ESA-listed salmon and steelhead. Since the early 2000s, the state has had ESA coverage by riding the coat tails of the treaty tribes' ESA coverage, which they got by riding the coat tails of a fishery management plan submitted by the BIA, even though the BIA is not a fishery management agency, making the entire affair look like a bit of a sham. But that's a separate point and possible issue.

Any politician who receives money from tribes will pander to them because politicians, for the most part, can be bought. However, tribes have run into a stumbling block because state law prohibits politicians from accepting money from governments, and tribal governments, as they are always telling everyone, are sovereign governments. Tribes can buy campaign ads for a candidate they support like a PAC - and they invariably support Democrat candidates - but they cannot donate directly to a candidate. And candidates don't get rich on tribal casino or any other money. They can be bought so cheaply that no middle class citizen would call that amount enough to be rich.

Sg


You are way wrong. Tribes donate directly and it works. And they donate to the Ds.

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#956903 - 05/05/16 06:39 PM Re: upset fisherman!!! [Re: wsu]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12766
Originally Posted By: wsu


You are way wrong. Tribes donate directly and it works. And they donate to the Ds.


That's about to come to a screeching halt
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#956906 - 05/05/16 06:41 PM Re: upset fisherman!!! [Re: eyeFISH]
wsu Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 422
Originally Posted By: eyeFISH
Originally Posted By: wsu


You are way wrong. Tribes donate directly and it works. And they donate to the Ds.


That's about to come to a screeching halt


Hope so. I think it has legs if it gets in front of the right people.


Edited by wsu (05/06/16 12:14 AM)

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#956907 - 05/05/16 06:56 PM Re: upset fisherman!!! [Re: ]
RICH G
Unregistered


You can check the archives if you like I know I posted about it.

Back around 2001 to 2002 we had low water years. the tribe had 4200 wild steelhead stacked like cord wood in the High Tide deep freeze. I went there for an alarm and saw the fish it was late March a worker later told me the count. The tribe/WDFW had reported a total harvest of like 1400 wild steelhead between Jan 1 and March 15 th, (not sure on the details long time ago). I called WDFW and they immediately called me a liar, they never attempted to verify the evidence, they did not care.

Those fish were sold as Halibut bait as I was told since the bottom of the steelhead market had dropped out.


Edited by RICH G (05/05/16 06:57 PM)

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#956916 - 05/05/16 07:45 PM Re: upset fisherman!!! [Re: Salmo g.]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
But they do donate directly. That was the gist of the request to PDC to clarify that it was not legal. PDC staff said that tp prevent the Tribes from donating would infringe on their First Amendment Rights. To have the best gubmint money can buy......

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#956918 - 05/05/16 07:52 PM Re: upset fisherman!!! [Re: ]
RICH G
Unregistered


I spent 3 years working in La Push watching the catch and then watching the reported harvest, (not even close to honest reporting). They would not do a full report until after the smolt outmigration counts. No matter what they always ended up with 25% of the entire run exactly, never a fish extra never a fish less. But they did not report or know the exact count until the following smolt outmigration, because that is the "number" they needed to get the appropriate "25%".

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#956920 - 05/05/16 09:28 PM Re: upset fisherman!!! [Re: ]
Steelheadman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/15/99
Posts: 4214
Loc: Poulsbo, WA,USA
Originally Posted By: RICH G
You can thank "MSY" and dirty politicians for the end of this states salmon fishery. There has never been any honesty, saw that when I worked in La Push 15 years ago.

Something else to ponder is the fact that most of you support the same liberal political candidates that the tribes have made much richer with casino money. You can pat yourself on the back for helping this along... Look who the tribes support and see if you support the same criminals.



And you support conservative candidates that are in bed with the tribe.

Sarah Palin supports tribal fisheries
_________________________
I'd Rather Be Fishing for Summer Steelhead!

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#956923 - 05/05/16 10:28 PM Re: upset fisherman!!! [Re: ]
RICH G
Unregistered


I support no politicians. In fact after my experience as a cop and running for sheriff I promised myself I would never vote again until we had some major changes. When Trump announced I decided to register again I will vote for him but cross out the rest of the ballot.

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#956925 - 05/05/16 10:40 PM Re: upset fisherman!!! [Re: ]
RICH G
Unregistered


The truth about the fish is its always been a mess, corruption on all sides. UW knew in the early 1970's that less than 1% of the available spawning habitat of the entire Quileute system was being utilized, the runs were decimated well before 1970, at least from historical natural abundance.

There was massive comercial fishing in terminal areas prior to 1900, hood cannal was full of fish wheels (piling type), there was a cannary on lake Quinault that processed the 20 million sockey run to extinction before 1900. All the rivers in Puget sound and up and down the coast were netted by whites on a comercial level prior to 1900. Thats when the first big run crashes happened and entire stocks were wiped out, what we had after that were the remnants.

This happened during and after, the whites gave the coastal natives small pox blankets for two or three rounds while Hudson Bay was doing business out on the coast. 98% of the natives on the coast died from European disease.

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#956927 - 05/05/16 10:54 PM Re: upset fisherman!!! [Re: Steelheadman]
luckydogss Offline
Smolt

Registered: 09/20/06
Posts: 92
Loc: Renton
Good ole Hillary came to town in late March. She made only 4 stops and one was a private meeting of tribal leaders in Puyallup.

Like a lot of donors with large sums of cash, they buy everyone so they've always got favor cards to play.

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#956933 - 05/06/16 07:46 AM Re: upset fisherman!!! [Re: ]
RICH G
Unregistered


All the while the runs have been managed under MSY they have been under critical mass. The natural abundance was gone prior to us even keeping track, and as we pounded the runs year after year, the food chain related to the fish shrank as well making it a very slow process for the runs to rebound. With environmental factors, runs managed below critical mass and a broken food chain the fish never have a chance to refill carrying capacity because the food, habitat and MSY won't allow it.

Look at the upper Bogachiel and Clawah. There is absolutely no reason that those rivers are not completely plugged full of fish 9 months out of the year. Those rivers have pristine habitat and miles of the very best spawning beds, multiple species should be spawning ontop of each other. For the most part those rivers are empty and unused, even150 years ago they would have put the Kamchatka Peninsula to shame with their abundance.


Edited by RICH G (05/06/16 07:53 AM)

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#956941 - 05/06/16 09:34 AM Re: upset fisherman!!! [Re: ]
fish4brains Offline
Dah Rivah Stinkah Pink Mastah

Registered: 08/23/06
Posts: 6866
Loc: zipper
yep, gillnetting killed it
_________________________
...
Propping up an obsolete fishing industry at the expense of sound fisheries management is irresponsible. -Sg



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#956959 - 05/06/16 01:20 PM Re: upset fisherman!!! [Re: ]
chrome demon Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 05/28/08
Posts: 350
Loc: Seattle, WA
Originally Posted By: RICH G
Something else to ponder is the fact that most of you support the same liberal political candidates that the tribes have made much richer with casino money. You can pat yourself on the back for helping this along... Look who the tribes support and see if you support the same criminals.



Doesn't the right generally reject the concept of climate change?
_________________________
release wild steelhead


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#956960 - 05/06/16 01:59 PM Re: upset fisherman!!! [Re: ]
Chasin' Baitman Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 08/15/12
Posts: 253
I am beyond upset about it. I am literally losing sleep. I keep telling my wife I need to find another hobby...but it's just a joke. I've been obsessed with fishing since I was a kid. There's nothing else in this world that's going to replace it.

I do fish for fish other than salmon. I do bottomfish. I also like fishing for bass and even trout. When I'm doing those I certainly enjoy them...but the truth is I am doing it because I can't go salmon fishing that day.

I've actually thought about moving, but I really love where I live. When I'm allowed to fish, there's actually no place in the world I'd rather be.

(side note - of course I'm willing to lay off PS salmon to let them recover. I just can't freakin deal with the fact that the tribes won't)

The question is - what to do?

Discuss online to stay up to date-check
Write emails and letters-check
Try to get others to do the same-check
Participate in PSA and CCA-check
Protest/rally in person - check

What else? I am willing to do whatever.


Edited by Chasin' Baitman (05/06/16 02:02 PM)

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#956965 - 05/06/16 02:22 PM Re: upset fisherman!!! [Re: Chasin' Baitman]
eugene1 Offline
Spawner

Registered: 09/17/10
Posts: 885
Loc: out there...
I feel really bad for you guys, if I lived in WA I would be going through the same thought process and withdrawals.

Maybe plan some get get away fishing trips?

Originally Posted By: Chasin' Baitman
I am beyond upset about it. I am literally losing sleep. I keep telling my wife I need to find another hobby...but it's just a joke. I've been obsessed with fishing since I was a kid. There's nothing else in this world that's going to replace it.

I do fish for fish other than salmon. I do bottomfish. I also like fishing for bass and even trout. When I'm doing those I certainly enjoy them...but the truth is I am doing it because I can't go salmon fishing that day.

I've actually thought about moving, but I really love where I live. When I'm allowed to fish, there's actually no place in the world I'd rather be.

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#956968 - 05/06/16 02:34 PM Re: upset fisherman!!! [Re: ]
5 * General Evo Offline
Lord of the Chums

Registered: 03/29/14
Posts: 6825
beyond upset is an understatement... i just bought in the last few months 4 new rods, 3 new reels, hooks, bobbers, jigs, spoons, weights, egg cures, dyes, boxes, worms, ect.....

and i can use about 1 1/10th of it....

the guy that took us back yesterday seemed to know alot of what he was talking about on the higher up inside stuff, if i remember right, he said something pertaining to the WFC and the tribes want Rainbow planting in lakes with creek inflow/outflow to stop, as they can spawn with Wild Steelhead.... my jaw dropped when i heard that....

a few days ago i was at a lake, and there was another guy there telling someone i know about how " screw Salmon, they need to put more and bigger trout in these lakes, anyone that wants Salmon over that, should be punched in the mouth".... i just kinda looked at him, then he stated that they will be putting Steelhead in lakes too... i told him that they are just bred from Steelhead, that Steelhead actually have to go to the salt and return to become Steelhead, and that if they are dumped into lakes they will just risidualize back to a Rainbow like some do in rivers becoming a resident.... appearently im wrong, Steelhead are a different species of Rainbow and they dont need to go to the salt....


theres alot of people that dont care, one dumb broad on FB said maybe we should learn to fish for something else other than Salmon and Steelhead.... i laughed at that too....

our problem is, theres more people that dont care than do, and that needs to change.... as i told them, if you think that losing Salmon fishing will protect everyone from coming to your lakes and raking everything out of them you have another thing coming.... its exactly what will happen....
_________________________
BLM IS A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION
ANTIFA IS A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION


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#956987 - 05/06/16 07:41 PM Re: upset fisherman!!! [Re: ]
RICH G
Unregistered


It's very sad that this has been stolen from the people.

If the fish had all along been managed for subsistence instead of comercial harvest we would have so many fish there would be no regulations or limits.

MSH instead of MSY what an idea problem is people have alot of fun and full bellies but no money in politicians pockets.


Edited by RICH G (05/06/16 07:43 PM)

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#956988 - 05/06/16 07:46 PM Re: upset fisherman!!! [Re: ]
RICH G
Unregistered


What needs to happen is the people of this state need to demand all of WDFW employees be terminated for gross mismanagement of the peoples resource. The people who work for the government do it at the will of the people, it is a privilege for them to look out for our best interests and serve us. They have not done that instead they have screwed us over and served themselves and the tribes.


Edited by RICH G (05/06/16 07:50 PM)

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