CFM-

For the record, I never have complained to a mod about anyone or anything. I have no fear of telling how I feel much like you. But dont blame me for the link being pulled unless you feel that my arguements were that compelling... laugh

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you weren't being personal.... And you need to give me the benefit of the doubt on what I have to say next is accurate.

I also have another angle on why it shouldn't be allowed on the internet. That information is an exclusive right to the citizens of washington as you have stated. What if I were to agree, but my concern is that it is not exclusive to only the residents of our state. That information is available to the entire world. Why should residents of brazil be able to pull up information for washington state employees? If the gubment cant insure that only state residents view this material, then they need to find another way of getting the information out without jeopardizing my rights to privacy. ( I think I have found my angle to fight this with... ya gotta admit its pretty good!)

Now, cfm I want to deal with your levy and teacher salary/ benefit stuff. I know some others chimed in, but you and I seem to be the main players here so ...

levy's have absolutely nothing to do with teacher salaries. Levys are for school operation and maintence only. That means power, renovations, operations as they pertain to the actual building, and busing I believe. Teachers hate levys as much as you do. I despise that time of year. See, I too am a taxpayer. My property taxes are huge and I'm sick of seeing them climb. But honestly, most of the schools in my area are in bad shape. Mold, water damage, and numerous safety issues are present. Our district is in the third year of cutting back major funds. My son is a second grader and is on a bus that is so crowded that kids are standing in the aisles for the ride home because they cut so many routes. Even if you think teachers make too much... voting down a levy does nothing but hurt kids. It doesn't come out of our pockets in any way, nor does that money make it in either. Usually sports porgrams are the first to go after a levy failure, or parents are force to pay for athletics. This means the kids who need something to do after school the most, usually cant afford to play so they "hang out". This is bad news... you probably see enough of bored teenagers where you live... lets keep the agressive one in a sport under close scrutiny!

Now- lets deal with the "overpaid, great benefits, all that vacation stuff. Once I posted all the education that it took for me to climb to a decent wage on the salary schedule and I got ripped for that. But, I'm going to do it again so you get an idea what it takes to get to the 50k mark on the salary. The average teacher gets a four year degree, then student teaches. Once they get a job, they have to do what is called a "fifth year" where they take another year of school. That degree is pricey to earn ( I still pay on mine) Most teachers that stop there could apply for free and reduced lunch at their own schools and get it. 20-23k is a reasonable estimate of they're salary. In order to get up the salary schedule I had to go back and get a masters degree which took 2 years and several thousand dollars out of my pocket. I did that during those lovely smmers and every weekend for that two years while I was teaching. That will get you into the 30k range....6-7 years of college to get to that salary. I also went back and got a degree in psychology because i thought it would help me work with the kids I am seeing more and more of now days. 3 years for that second bachelors degree... again, nights weekend and that lovely summer time I keep hearing about. That will put you in the uper 30's to low 40's. 9 years of college to get to the 40k range.
We do get yearly raises for the first 16 years.. or 17 maybe. Then we will never get another raise for the rest of the time we teach unless gubment approves one... which they often promise, but rarely pay. I also pay $400 a month out of pocket for my part of my familys health care... (2 adults, 2 kids...) It has gone up five years in a row.

I can honestly tell you that I had 4 weeks off this year during the summer. I had classes to attend (which I paid for) just to keep my certificate current (even though I cant be paid anymore for the credits earned.. I'm at the top of that scale). I also coach to supplement my income, football eats up another 2-4 weeks with camps and two a days., plus adds at least 4 hours a day 6 days a week. I coached 4 sports for 5 years in a row.... With coaching I average a 12 hour day. I never sit at my desk reading the paper, and I work very hard as do most of the people I work with. Try teaching algebra to 30 hormone ridden teens... it can be ugly.
I have worked many jobs before I became an educator... I worked for a small logging operation for a couple of years, I have framed houses, installed cable tv, excavated, and I still work concrete (foundations and driveways mostly) in the summers and some weekends in the spring.... I know what hard work is. Teaching is incredibly tough.... most parents cant handle being around their own kids, try 180 teenagers a day. The time demands are absurd. Most jobs you do a 40 hour week and anything above that you're paid over time. In this profession you're working at least 50 and if you get anything extra (even for working the summer) its HALF TIME... thats right, about half your daily rate for teaching summer school, or saturday school... I refuse to do it.
I realize there are those who wont care, and think we make too much and do nothing regardless of what I saw. I dont really care about that... Thats the uninformed thinkng they're experts about school because they went there once. They have no idea other than what they remember about their own teachers. Luckily over 80% of the voters in this state disagree with them. I stay in the profession because I get a kick out of seeing a kid "get it" when I teach something, and hearing about former students/players making a name for themselves as adult . The downside is that some dont make it... some die or are killed (another story, another time) Thens its hard to go back into the room... I guess it has its ups and downs. I dont plan on getting rich, nor am I sure I'd want to. My wife and I both teach so we do OK financially.

Now cfm... once again. I read what you asked, I have a better understanding of the law thanks to your challenge. But, I dont agree completely that it is a good law as written. I do think some disclosure is a good idea, how much...well thats where it gets fuzzy. ( and honestly why should you care because its highly unlikely I could do anything about it....) but you asked that we tune this down and try and keep it civil...and I have. I understand your PO'ed because it was pulled. But, I had zero to do with that. If you want to bring it back down to a discussion... I'm in.

Again, my disclaimer about grammer and spelling.... I'm a math teacher for god's sake, I'm not perfect!